World of Speakers E.32: Igor Celikovic | Creating a TEDx Talk

IC: It's about right, it's Celikovic.

RF: All right, well hey, I got that on 2 tries, not 3, so that's great.

Well, Igor, welcome to the show.

We are really excited to talk with you today about your story, about how you got into a position of working with TEDx speakers, all the way from Brussels to San Francisco.

We're going to dive into your tips.

We'll probably pretend that I have a TEDx Talk coming up, which I actually do, and we'll see if we can get the best information from you on how to make that TEDx Talk the best ever.

Then, I want to pick your brain on how speakers that have amazing ideas can get noticed by the different event organizers around the world for those TEDx events.

Let's first start with basically your history.

Where did you come from, where are you going?

What do you love to do and how did it bring you to helping speakers communicate ideas that are worth spreading?

IC: That's a lot of questions in the intro.

RF: Exactly, we come in hot here. Just tell us a little bit about yourself, what's your history?

IC: I come from the former Yugoslavia, I was born in the country that no longer exists, and I was moving ever since.

So basically when I was 18, I moved away from Serbia and went to study in Italy.

I studied political science which was something that I was interested in at the time, and then ever since I finished my studies I never worked in political science per se.

There are quite a bit of parenthesis in between that and coming to Brussels.

When I came to Brussels, I heard about this thing TEDx, and then I saw that there was the first TEDx event in 2009 being organizing in TEDx Brussels.

It was actually one of the first TEDx events ever organized globally, because the TEDx as such, as a program started in 2009.

I applied to become a volunteer that year, and it kind of changed my life, in multiple ways.

I started to evolve, both professionally and personally, from that point on.

It was a turning point towards so many new experiences, back in 2009.

RF: What was that experience for you?

What was it specifically about that event that sort of changed your life?

What was an example of the life-changing experience that you had at that time?

IC: Well, I just joined the whole new world of Brussels, of the international institutions, I was a trainee back then.

I wasn't particularly good at public speaking, I wasn't particularly good at event organizing but as a volunteer there, I went the extra mile.

I showed the organizers that I am willing to do whatever it takes and not to be just a lazy volunteer doing only what is necessary to get a free ticket.

I think the organizers noticed that, so they gave me a bigger responsibility the next year, and then the next year.

Throughout all these years of being involved with TEDx, not only was I able to learn event organization and how to motivate volunteers and all of those things.

In the end, I also ended up being a speaker coach for the speakers at the event, which was a totally different experience where I also learned a lot.

RF: As a kid, were you a very talkative person? Did you ever really identify as a speaker?

Or was it more like you had this natural transition into being an audience member which becomes an amazing coach?

IC: I always liked to speak a little bit, but when I was a kid I wasn't an extrovert.

I'm kind of an introvert person— if I prepare well for the talk, I can give let's say a decent talk.

I think what it takes to be a coach, at least in my case, is the empathy towards the speaker, so to really be a listener and to really understand what the speaker wants to communicate in the talk itself.

That's why I like TEDx as a format so much, because it really makes a speaker focus on one specific idea instead of telling his or her life story. That format really captivated me a lot.

And then, by traveling to all the other TEDx events and some TED Conferences, I have been exposed to so many different speakers, so many different people that did so many different and amazing things, I've learned from them how to kind of craft a good talk.

RF: Now, from a coaching perspective, were you ever involved in athletics, were you ever a coach in any type of sport or anything?

IC: No, not really, but I've tried several sports myself. It never lasted very long.

RF: I think it's an interesting analogy between sports and speaking.

There's more than just one connection when it comes to that, and sometimes the best coach isn't necessarily the best player, but being able to take an outside perspective and give some honest feedback I think that that is definitely something that's happened to you in your experience, and I think that's a valuable and unique perspective to go from.

So give us a little bit of a background on these different events.

You said you've gone to the main conference, you're working with Brussels and then you also had mentioned offline that you worked with San Francisco?

IC: Yeah, the people that I worked with here in Brussels are seasoned entrepreneurs that build up companies and always have some crazy ideas, and I really like hanging out with them.

They moved from Brussels some 4 years ago, maybe even 5 years ago to the Silicon Valley to pursue new ideas in the MedTech industry.

But ever since they moved to San Francisco, they kept the TEDxBrussels license for a year or 2, so I continued working with them here and then I still continued with TEDxBrussels for the past 2 years, without them.

But when they moved to San Francisco, they started TEDx San Francisco, so let's say they worked well with me in Brussels and they gave me their trust also in San Francisco with some also very important names of people to work there and to hear them out and to help them with their talks.

So, that's how I got in touch with the whole TEDx San Francisco community.

RF: Very cool. You've been to the main TED Conferences as well?

IC: I haven't been to the main one in Vancouver.

I've been to this conference that took place before, now it is no longer happening, the TEDActive which is kind of a parallel conference to TED Conference.

It also has a limited amount of people who can attend and it's basically a conference on which you watch the simulcast or the main event, and you have lots of workshops, lots of activities offline with the people that are attending.

RF: Gotcha.

IC: And it's a mix of people that usually go to TED, but it's the more active style or the conference or TEDx organizers or translators for other people that are involved in the TED community.

RF: Now, the TED and the TEDx community has really just blossomed in the last few years.

Why do you think it is that they become so popular and it's become something that a lot of people go to as a default when they need some inspiration or they need learning?

Is there anything that you can think of— like what is it that has made TEDx so popular, just from your first-hand experience?

IC: I think it depends if you're a first time attendee or let's say a second or a third time attendee.

For me, I think for first time attendees, what really attracts people is the brand itself, and the expectation that they will see something that they see online, so let's say the similar quality of talks.

But for the second and third time attendees, whether they have had good or bad experiences TEDx doesn't really matter, I think what brings them back is not really the talks but mostly the offline engagement at the conferences.

I mean, you go there for the talks, but I think the offline engagement in breaks and the quality of audience members you can encounter is priceless.

Because TEDx conferences don't attract only one type of audience, they attract people from totally different groups of society, from people in the health industry to technicians, to engineers, to journalists, and this mix is really something that is interesting to people when they plan to attend.

RF: Do you have any particular favorite TED or TEDx Talks?

Do you have two or three that everybody who is listening should go and check out?

IC: Well, I watched quite a few, so it's now difficult from the top of my mind to name several.

Let's say one that really strike me is Benjamin Zander’s talk.

He's a composer and his pitch is basically he's going to make everyone fall in love with classical music.

RF: Oh yeah! I've seen that one, that one's great.

IC: It's his personality that is in that talk very much all over the place, and that's why it works.

He's not shy about sharing his idea and he's very clear about what he wants to achieve with the talk.

That's what I like about that talk, it's very much an example of a TED talk that works as it should.

Because he could have had a talk about, "Oh, classical music is very important and I do classical music, and that's it"

But no, he had a very concrete thing, he wants everybody to fall in love with classical music—not 10%-20% of the people.

And that's what I really captured from his talk.

RF: Yeah and I remember he actually got into the audience, right?

I mean, he's playing the piano, he got into the audience, he was a really interactive one from what I remember.

IC: Yeah. There are other talks from TEDx Brussels, I'd have to think, my brain is a bit frozen now to try to remember all these talks.

But for example, there is a talk of a friend of mine, he went to speak at the University Event.

[Tomislav Perko was recently featured on World of Speakers, see his interview “World of Speakers E.26: Hitchhiker’s guide to professional speaking”]

That is also a very good talk because it tackles a point that people want to hear about.

It's about how to travel the world with almost no money, and it's now in the Top 50 of the most watched TEDx talks of all times.

It has over 4 million views and it was recorded at a small university event.

RF: And you know what— I've actually interviewed him on the World of Speakers, so I know exactly who you're talking about.

IC: There we go.

RF: Yeah, that's a great one, now he's a great guy, it was fun talking to him.

So, you've had a lot, if not more exposure than most, to the TED and the TEDx community, and it's led you to become a TEDx coach.

Maybe describe to people what is a TEDx coach, what is it that you do?

And then I'm going to pick your brain and we are going to pull amazing insights and information for people who are aspiring TEDx speakers or existing TEDx speakers, on how they can deliver the best talk ever.

What is a TEDx coach and maybe describe that process that you go through with someone?

IC: In my experience, a TEDx coach is someone who approaches the speaker at the right time, basically the organizer or let's say the curator, they select the speakers and me as a coach, I don't have a say on who the speaker will be, but I do have a say on what the speaker will focus on.

Let's say my task is not to tell the speaker what the speaker should talk about.

But it's kind of to put a mirror to the speaker to say, "Ökay, you're the speaker, tell me what do you really care about?"

And then if I feel that we are not right exactly there where I think the talk might be very successful, then I just tell the speaker,

"Okay, let's talk about something else, let's talk about what is it the most exciting thing that happened to you."

The process is to talk to the person, try to get him out of his frequency with ideas on how the talk should look like and try to maybe pin down something else that the speaker maybe hasn't even thought about.

And that process goes in such a way that once we nail down on what the idea is, then we start developing let's say the narrative or the structure of the talk.

And then we go through the whole process of how do we find nice stories to tell, how do we find a way to make a nice punchline somewhere in the talk.

Also, how do you start, how do you end the talk, like there are all these bits and pieces that are important to kind of craft something that is powerful, that actually can make somebody remember the talk when they have seen it, whether it's 18 minutes or 12 minutes.

The process goes basically from the initial stage of just getting to know each other, getting to let's say gain the trust of the speaker, so that they know who I am and that I know who they are.

Then, I give them some homework because, in the end, it should be the speaker always crafting the talk.

I am never supposed to craft the talk for them because they need to feel comfortable with the thing they are going to say.

Then we do the several feedback loops in which I comment or I ask them further questions for them to clarify why they want to say certain things and not others, and so on and so forth.

RF: Alright, so I was taking some notes there and I'm going to challenge us to unpack this.

So, just so I get this straight, because I want to get this outline— you first build trust as a coach.

Secondly, you help them solidify, clarify, crystallize that core idea.

Then you mentioned you work on the narrative.

From the narrative comes the structure and after the structure you are trying to figure out how to incorporate storytelling.

Then you can either go back or figure out those punchlines maybe to create some humor or some connectivity with the audience.

And then it's interesting, you said that you figure out how to start and finish almost at the end, so maybe you build it and then the beginning and the end formulate from that.

Is that a pretty decent recall of your structure there?

IC: Yeah, some speakers actually have a very clear idea of how they want to start or how they want to end.

But also, at the same time, I've seen speakers that are so good at what they are saying that it doesn't really matter how they start or how they end.

Honestly, I've seen talks in which I was blown away by the whole content and by the talk and I would never have said to the guy like, "Look, you really have to start in this way."

Because they just don't feel comfortable, so they started in their own way and maybe they ended with a bit more punchy lines.

If the speaker had to pick between let's say thinking about the ending or thinking about the beginning, I would always say, "Think about the ending."

Because usually one of the pitfalls in this process is that people cannot know how to end, so they just continue talking and just talking and talking, developing new arguments when the talk is supposed to end.

RF: Right, okay. So let's go through and let's break down and spend a couple of minutes on each one of these.

So as a coach, when you're building trust, are there certain activities that you do to build trust, are there any kind of like tactics that you use, or is it literally just sort of bonding with them?

How do you gain that trust as a coach with your speaker when you start?

IC: It's really personal in the sense that it depends on the other person, who the other person is.

Most of the coaching I did for example recently with San Francisco was online because I wasn't there physically the whole time.

I was there only one week before the event, so I did some of the onsite coaching let's say last minute. Most of the work I had done online.

What I usually do is if I see that the person actually has some time to talk to me, we start talking informally about other things or they get to know me, they get to know how I know the organizers and how I know TEDx.

I also try to show them that it's not my first time coaching someone so that they feel a bit more comfortable, and also that whatever we say stays between us, because sometimes speakers are hesitant sharing or opening up to an unknown person, which is totally understandable.

When you do it online, you have to be also very careful because there are other speakers that are let's say CEOs of very important companies and they don't really have a lot of free time. I cannot really go into bonding or creating trust with people like that, I have to be very respectful of their time.

In that sense, when that kind of person comes, I try to let's say cut down that part of getting to know each other and we just jump straight into the mix of talking about the talk.

RF: Alright, so let's jump into that concept of the idea, for TEDx in general. It seems as though its focus is on one idea.

So how do you help that speaker narrow down the focus and not get distracted by too many different topics?

Do you really focus and make sure that they only have one core concept that they're trying to get across?

IC: Well that's what I try. It doesn't always work out.

There are speakers that are very difficult to convince that the one idea approach is good, it's not just me telling them like, "Look, it's one idea."

At end of the day, this speaker goes on stage and they want to do their own thing, I cannot tell them, "Don't do it."

In the end, only the curator can say, "Look, if you don't listen to basic rules and you totally go off topic, then maybe we won't put your video online."

But it's really, let's say, a very harsh scenario in which something like that can happen.

What I usually try to do is I tell them that, "If you focus on one idea and your talk is something that people haven't heard yet,"

So you have something very specific for example: let's talk about how volcanoes in some specific regions affect climate change or whatever.

"If you have something that hasn't been heard too many times, if you're that specific then the whole talk has a much better chance of getting more views and being more popular."

Or, "It has more chance of getting on TED.com."

Because TED.com doesn't want to replicate talks that have already been talked about so many times.

There are many speakers that just want to replicate a talk that already exists.

They just want to do maybe a similar talk to what they have done before or they just want to copy somebody else that already talked about the same topic, which doesn't really add a lot of value when you think about a talk as a media that is online.

Maybe on the event itself, that talk can be very well received by the audience, and that's fine, but as the events where I coach, like TEDx San Francisco, we really try to get something new every single time.

I think that's the best argument I have— if you have something new, if you have something specific, the better chances you have of your idea getting further.

RF: If you have multiple ideas that one unique idea might get lost or overlooked or if you have multiple ideas and not all of them are unique, then you're not going to be appealing to sort of the TED gods of sharing that information with the world. I like that.

IC: Not only the TED gods, because also you have the audience that has certain expectations.

Me, as an audience member, when I go to TED.com I have expectations that I'm going to hear one idea from the talk.

I watch the talk, I want to know one thing, like, "So what do I have in my head now from this talk, what have I learned?"

And then if I want to dive more deeply into the topic, I know where to go.

I don't want to go just to the talk that is just funny— there are talks like that, that are maybe just stand-up comedy or that don't maybe have one let's say thread that runs through the entire talk, and is fine, it's entertaining.

But it's entertaining on the offline event. On the online— I'm not sure how successful that can be.

RF: Yeah, I think that's great.

I love this idea of just focusing on the one idea, but I can see how speakers come in with multiple ideas and having a coach to basically narrow them down to that, that's a lot of value.

I think it's a short amount of time and if you pack too much information, I know there are some talks that I get overloaded with and whatnot.

So let's talk about the narrative.

When you say, "Working on the narrative," and you also mentioned structure— is there a certain narrative or structure that you see works?

Is it on a case by case basis?

Tell me about how you work with someone on their structure?

IC: It's really on a case by case basis, because there is no one way to set up an appealing structure in a talk.

Some people are more storytellers, other people are more logical, so they try to organize their information in a very logical manner, like let's say in the 3's and 3's and 3's.

While other people are just very emotional talkers, they are storytellers but with lots of emotions.

So there are all these different categories of speakers and it's difficult for me to tell them like, "Look, this is a structure you need to abide by and then the talk will be noticed."

Of course, there are some tricks especially if you are not let's say a seasoned speaker.

I think the whole thing about dividing the talking to let's say 3 parts and then each of the 3 parts into other 3 parts.

This "Rule of 3" is a good rule for you to remember what you need to talk about, and also it's a good rule for the talk to be easily followed.

That way you know that you need to dedicate a certain amount of time to each of the 3 parts and that it's not too let's say imbalanced.

Some speakers divide their talks into 3 parts and then they overestimate the importance of the middle part or of the beginning and then they just overlook the third part and it doesn't feel right.

So the structure is— we are trying to understand what the idea is and then, seeing from the idea, how many arguments can be put in there— are those scientific arguments, are there more stories and based on that, then we craft a structure and it just follows from that first initial assessment of what is the core idea.

RF: Now, one of the things about TEDx, which I believe is great is the limitation on time. It has to be 18 minutes or less.

I've seen some as short as 5 or 7 minutes all the way up to like 17:59 minutes.

Is there a certain time frame that you think works? Is it again on a case by case basis?

What can you tell us about strategy when it comes to how long or short your talk should be?

IC: The timing is a big discussion in the TEDx community, everybody has their own view on this.

As you say, there are some talks that are like 3 minutes or 5 minutes, and actually, when I look at those talks, I really like them.

They are talks that are really engaging, that are well thought through, usually.

Because when you have only 3 minutes to share something, then you really narrow it down to the essentials, you don't put anything extra, everything that has been superfluous has been taken away, and that's what I like about the 3-minute talks.

What I usually do and what I did in the past 2 years in TEDxBrussels when I was co-curating the event, I was also selecting the speakers and inviting them to speak, I gave them all 12 minutes with some exceptions of being maybe a little bit less.

But let's say that the 12 minutes is what I consider to be enough time to deliver an idea, one idea, whatever it is and still without going too much into depth, but also without allowing the speaker to add non-important elements into the talk.

Then again, is it an ideal length— I don't think so.

I think there are speakers that are able easily to do 18 minutes without boring the audience, and also still conveying the idea and still supporting it.

But it's not easy to find speakers like that all the time.

You can find some speakers with whom you can feel totally comfortable doing 18 minutes, while with others maybe you get 9, and I think that's what makes TEDx event dynamic.

If you have different lengths of talks during the day, for the audience it's very pleasing to listen to that.

Otherwise, if every talk would be 18 minutes and you have to go through the entire day of talks, you get totally brain dead by the end of the day.

Because maybe you like one talk but you don't like the other one. But when there are shorter and longer ones, a mix, it's good, because then you go quicker through the entire day and it's more interactive.

RF: Yes, less people fall asleep with ideas that put them to sleep.

I've done 2 TEDx Talks and I'm actually geared to do my third here, so depending on when somebody is listening to that, the third one has either been done or not.

But the time is something that I'm really looking at, reverse engineering the content into it, and that 12-minute I think I'm shooting for, my first 2 were definitely over 12, but I like the idea of getting rid of the non-crucial information.

The talk is set up not as a big keynote, it's like let's teach the audience something that is going to totally wow them and make them remember, but also have them share the idea with other people, I think the cure to spreadability is succinctness, to some extent.

Let's talk about storytelling, because I know storytelling is a huge part of TEDx talks and a lot of the personal stories are what make the talks so compelling.

How do you work with someone on pulling the stories out, identifying the stories?

Talk to me about your storytelling coaching.

IC: There are 2 types of storytelling when the speaker goes on stage.

One type of speakers is speakers that are very comfortable with sharing their own stories.

Let's say a speaker has done something in their life and then the speaker wants to share it with the audience, there are speakers that love doing that.

There is the other type of speakers which are not very comfortable with sharing their own story. They feel it is something private, they don't want to go there, and it's totally understandable.

I never push them to share their stories, I never tell them, "Oh, but you have to share your story because your story is brilliant."

I think that if the speaker is very experienced in what he or she is talking about, they're always going to find a different story of somebody else who has done a similar thing or let's say out of the group of people that have done something extraordinary or something that is worth telling the story about.

I discovered the stories by having that kind of informal conversation at the beginning.

In those informal conversations about what the people do during the day, how their day at work looks like, you can actually find potentially very interesting stories, especially the ones that the speaker is not even aware of.

Usually, speakers don't think about certain things when they are preparing the talk, they feel as if those things are boring to the audience.

And then my job maybe is to kind of tell them, "No, this is boring, this is actually the most interesting part of your talk, and you have to definitely have it in."

I was working recently with a scientist who is a biologist but who actually tries to understand how we can build biological spaceships which will help us go into space and those ships will actually be a living organism that would adapt.

So he's trying to mix biology with astronomy, with design and art, all of these different things.

And for me, actually, the story that was very interesting is how his life looks at work, when he has to speak with all of these different people, what are his challenges.

He didn't feel like that was something that is very worth mentioning, but for me, as an audience member, I think I never hear these stories of how is it that in one minute you're talking to a designer and then 10 minutes after you are talking to a biologist, like what kind of mental preparedness you need to have.

So for me, that's a story that is interesting that kind of also tells the story about you as a scientist, when you have to work on these interesting things.

That's something that for me is TEDx worthy, and these stories, either the speaker they discover them themselves or in conversations with me, we kind of nail down some extra detail that they can use.

RF: Now, do you think that sometimes telling other, more well-known stories is more impactful than personal stories?

So, for my talk coming up, the working title is, "Why no one cares what you do."

It's really at the end of the day, about communication and how people don't care what you do as much as they care about the problems that you solve and that's just in how you position it.

In referencing an example in my own life versus representing an example of Elon Musk and how he communicates or what he's doing.

A lot more people know about Elon Musk and might resonate it, but my story also is particular me and has an insight on how I have discovered the way that I communicate.

Do you think there's an advantage or disadvantage when it comes to telling your own stories versus other people's stories?

IC: It depends really on what your story is about.

If your story is the only story you can tell to illustrate something, then tell your story, don't tell somebody else's story.

If you have different options, try to see which story is more striking, which story is more let's say not expected, because every time you listen to a talk, your attention is going to be grabbed by something that you don't expect.

If I tell a story about me, I was not a good communicator and I was an introvert, and I was raised there and blah, blah, blah.

Nobody is going to listen to my story because it's boring, it's like, "Oh you were a kid once, okay you've grown up, I mean— what is interesting there?"

I could never start a talk like that, but I could probably find some other story in my life that was interesting, that maybe people can more associate themselves with.

Also, because TEDx is both an offline and an online event, you need to understand who the audience is, at least keep them a little bit with you.

For the online audience, we know it's a very diverse audience, so there you need to talk to the world.

That's like for example, what Tomislav Perko did really well, I mean he talked to so many young people that want to travel with almost no money.

He figured out that with his story, and he mentioned maybe a couple of other stories in his talk that were not his, but with his stories mostly, he was able to get to all these people because they realize that,

"Oh, if he can do it, maybe I can do it, at least in theory, and in practice— who knows."

RF: So having sort of a gut check of, yes, you are targeting the audience that you are in front of which has a certain theme for the event organizer, but at the same time, that offline event, when it goes online, you really have to understand that you are maybe speaking to a global audience, right?

IC: Yes, so you can definitely mention the Elon Musk example, but also, you have to ask yourself, "How many other talks are mentioning Elon Musk?"

Are people who are likely to see your talk online already maybe fed up with Elon Musk examples?

When I watch some talks and they always quote Steve Jobs, I'm not sure if I want to continue to watch that talk, maybe I do if the talk is really good, but if all the person can find is Steve Jobs as an example, I'm thinking maybe they haven't done their homework.

Maybe there are other great examples that are actually much better.

But then, a good storyteller is able to tell a story in such a compelling way to introduce me to a person I ever heard about in Indonesia that maybe has I don't know how many kids and doing something extraordinary, maybe is a great communicator, but is not really well known.

Maybe that story serves much better the purpose for what you want to argue in your talk.

RF: I dig it, I like that.

The idea of describing someone who you've never met in a compelling way so that that story could resonate way more than something that has maybe been overplayed.

IC: Yeah, because also you're never going to describe, for example, Elon Musk as a father or whatever, you're never going to go in such a depth of describing who he is.

Because you assume that everybody else already knows who he is; but it's not true, everybody has a different let's say a tag for Elon Musk.

So what I think in my mind when I hear Elon Musk is one thing, but what other people think about Elon Musk is a totally different thing.

So maybe you don't have people on board on the same emotional level.

But if you introduce a person that is not well-known, you are able to describe them in the same way to everyone, so that everybody has let's say the same emotional involvement in your talk.

There is an advantage I think of having people that are not that well-known.

RF: Yes, and especially when it comes to an international or global audience after the fact and in a day where people are very polarized, some people can really love one person where a lot of other people can hate that person.

I like this concept of introducing a neutral emotional state, where everyone is kind of on the same page of maybe more of an underdog or somebody who they haven't heard of, which makes it more likely to be shareable.

IC: Or there is a speaker who for example says, "I have a new app that does I don't know what", and then they say like, "It's an Uber for blah, blah, blah, fill in the blank."

If people use Uber to make an analogy for their app, I always say like,

"No, don't do it, I'm not going to allow it, because you're going to be undermining the value of your app or the value of your whatever product it is, or your idea."

There is no reason to compare with the most famous product out there, because it's not adding anything to the story.

Especially with TEDx audience, they don't really go to listen to talks to feel like, "Oh, this is a new Uber."

No, all these people they actually know what Uber is, it's totally fine, let's try to describe as much as you can what your product does, because it's never just an Uber for something.

I think it actually detracts more from the idea than what it adds.

RF: Interesting. Let's talk about the punchlines and comedy.

What are your thoughts on incorporating comedy into a talk?

Is it crucial, is it case by case basis again?

What do you think?

IC: I think it's a very good idea.

I've seen people pulling it off brilliantly. I've seen people forgetting their jokes, which was totally fun.

I've seen people trying to deliver jokes and it just didn't work, it just didn't land.

My advice always to a speaker is, "Be yourself, don't try to be funny just because you think you have to be funny."

I then show them some talks that are totally not funny but are totally relevant and totally good.

It really depends on the topic, on the speaker.

You have to feel comfortable in your shoes.

I think that in coaching, the most important thing that I have learned in the past years, is that I should never impose on any speaker any kind of golden rule.

There are some guidelines that you can use to become a better speaker or guidelines you can use to craft a better talk.

But at the end of the day, it's not going to be me on the stage telling the talk, it's going to be them.

They have to feel comfortable and also their talk has to come off as something that is natural, that is spontaneous, even though it's well prepared in advance.

RF: Let's finish up these tips about TEDx talking and the coaching that goes along with it.

We're talking about starting and ending. I'd love to know your thoughts or some examples of some really creative ways that people have started.

I know it's a case by case, and we sort of touched on it earlier, but how do you help people find that perfect start or find that finish?

I know you think that the finish is more important, but are there any silver rules— not golden rules, but things that people can use as maybe starting examples when they're putting together their talk?

IC: For the beginning, what I think is the most important thing, and again, there are some exceptions that break the rules, but those exceptions are so brilliant that they don't have to follow the rules.

For people who are trying to craft a good talk and to be interesting to the audience, try to think what is this one specific thing with which you can create an unexpectedness in your audience?

So right off the bat, like when you start the talk, don't start with, "My name is Igor, today I'm going to talk to you about spaceships." That's a no-go!

Because then you have already lost them, they're like, "Oh my god, okay so this is going to be a boring talk about spaceships and who knows what."

Try to start with a question or try to start with 2 different things or 3 different things your talk is going to tackle and that usually people don't know how you can put them together.

Try to tell them, "Today we're going to talk about spaceships, Nutella and some third thing."

And then basically you get their brains breaking like, "How can you connect these 3 things?"

Get them interested from the start that they are willing to think, they are willing to stay with you in the talk because they think they are going to be discovering something new.

Take them on a journey, and the best way to take somebody on a journey is to not really give them the map, but kind of just show them the map in half a second so they see the map and the map is gone, and then you are the map.

But they know that they are going to go somewhere nice. Entice them into going on the journey with you.

The ending for me is more about understanding what is the thing you want people to leave with.

The trick is always to just rehearse the last let's say 2 or 3 sentences you want to say and make them memorable, and make them short, don't use very long sentences which go nowhere, it needs to be rehearsed.

Because what I've seen is when people don't rehearse the ending they say, "I know how I'm going to end."

It doesn't go well because when you're on the stage you lose track of time, you lose the sense of where you are, you feel very excited, you feel the audience wants to hear more from you, so you continue giving them more information.

I think rehearsing those 2 or 3 last sentences to really nail down what you told them, repeating some of the most important things.

But really, make them short, those sentences and you're good to go.

RF: So here's a quick question, and there is a school of thought in either way.

I'm curious about your thoughts— having the final words that you say, say, "Thank you."

There's a school of thought that you shouldn't do that and a school thought that you should.

What are your thoughts on the last words being, "Thank you," to basically let everybody know that you're done?

IC: I think it's kind of the same thing.

My personal opinion is that it's the same thing as the beginning.

There are people who do it, it doesn't really matter, their talk was so brilliant that it cannot really undermine the quality of the talk.

But I think it doesn't add anything in the TEDx sense.

It's better to just end the talk and if you really want to say, "Thank you," wait for 5 seconds, 6 seconds after your talk has been done, so people can really get those last words in, they can process them.

Stay on the stage and then say, "Thank you very much, this was it," and then you leave the stage.

But don't attach the, "Thank you," very close to the last sentence. I think that's the mistake.

It's not a mistake to say, "Thank you," after some time, it is totally fine, but leave the opportunity to the production to kind of cut that, "Thank you" out if they can.

Also leave the opportunity to the audience to not focus on the, "Thank you," because then their brain is already on that and they will forget what is the last thing you told them.

If you can go without a, "Thank you," that's also fine.

But yeah, I think during the talk, the breaking and the pausing are very important, but at the end really when you say, "Thank you," it's very important.

RF: I think that's great.

One of the things that I want you to leave everyone with is, this concept that the event organizers should be coming to find you and your idea.

Tell me about that concept?

I know that some people go out there and they try to get TEDx talks, and your belief is, "If you have an amazing idea, they will find you."

Maybe just to kind of wrap up the show, your thoughts on that and then we will leave everybody to their devices to continue to come up with these ideas to share on the TEDx stage.

IC: I had a lot of experience with people who were proposing themselves as a speaker and they said,

"I am a brilliant speaker, I can do whatever you want."

And I think that for me the wrong way to go is when you can say that you can speak about anything.

To me is as a curator or as a person organizing the event, it means you're not passionate about anything in particular, so you can just talk about whatever you want.

For me, it's an approach that can work with some TEDx Conferences, I'm not saying that all TEDx organizers are the same.

I think what really works well is that really any speaker out there or any professional out there for that matter, because not all TEDx speakers are professional speakers, many of them don't really enjoy speaking or they don't speak too often.

But you need to be good at something and when you're good at something, and you really try to nail down on something even more specific than what you are usually working on, try to find some interesting idea that you can have and that can have some value not only for yourself or people listening to you, but for the community as such.

It really depends, if you want to speak at the university event, try to show how your idea can be of value for that community.

Or if you are trying to speak at a city event in a big city, try to find out first what kind of speakers that event selects.

It's totally fine if you send an email to the organizer but I think the thing to avoid is to tell the organizer,

"Look, I am a great speaker and I can speak about whatever you want."

Instead, try to connect with the topic of the event and say,

"Look, I have an interesting research I am working on, and I would like to share something about that."

What I was looking always at is, yes the quality of the speaker, also because we are all volunteers when we organize, we don't have time to train every speaker into becoming an amazing speaker, we do the coaching and the all this process, that's totally fine.

We do want somebody who has at least a little bit of experience in speaking.

The second thing I look at is, I try to check if the speaker has some authority to speak on the topic he or she wants to tackle.

It's good to have some kind of reference or something on some websites that talk about you, if you're really an expert on the topic you want to tackle.

Try to kind of help the organizer understand what is the idea you can nail down, instead of getting the organizer to think on your behalf what you can talk about.

RF: I got you.

Ladies and gentlemen, you have heard it here and Igor has laid it all out.

That's the entire behind the scenes from a TEDx coach and it's really about having one idea and structuring a narrative that's going to communicate your idea in a structure, maybe of 3, that might be the best.

Still, 3 sections all focusing on one common idea using storytelling as the glue that holds everything together and is able to relate to not just your live audience, but the global audience, once your talk goes digital.

Making sure that you've got a punchline or two and not messing it up and even if you do, hopefully you'll get a laugh or two.

And then really, focusing on a start that delivers something that is unexpected and finishing with something that is short-sentenced and simple so that they actually understand the main point for the rest of their lives.

And when it comes to it, don't try to pitch the fact that you can talk about everything.

Have authority and speak to maybe one thing that you actually can talk about and pitch that fact to an organizer, and they will do some cyber-searching-stocking on you and if it all matches up, you might find yourself on the TEDx stage.

Well, Igor, this has been fantastic.

I really enjoyed this, I'm going to use all of this information in my upcoming TEDx talk and I'll probably hit you up separately to do a run-through online and see what you think about it.

How does that sound?

IC: Perfect, let me know when is it.

RF: It'll be soon, very cool.

Alright, well everyone, I hope that you were inspired today because if you have an idea that's worth spreading, the TEDx and TED stage is a great place to share with the world.

So get your ideas together, formulate it into one of the best ones ever that has not been overplayed and then get up and find yourself on the circular red carpet on the stage.

Alright, this is Ryan, I'm out.

Igor, again thank you very much and how would you normally say goodbye in Brussels?

IC: In Brussels, you would probably say in French so au revoir!

RF: Au revoir, and au revoir to everyone else, and tune in to past episodes and we will see you in future episodes, this is Ryan Foland World of Speakers with Igor, signing out.

A bit about World of Speakers

World of Speakers is a bi-weekly podcast that helps people find their own voice, and teaches them how to use their voice to develop a speaking business.

We cover topics like: what works versus what doesn't, ideas on how to give memorable presentations, speaking tips, and ideas on how to build a speaking business.

Connect with Igor Celikovic:

• SpeakerHub profile

• Website

• TEDxBrussels

• TEDx Brussels on: Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn

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