World of Speakers E.18: Shakira Brown | Marketing mentality

A lot of people have sort of a ping-pong path to where they end up, but you had a force-feed-ping-pong path.

It just sounds like you threw yourself into everything possible and that gave you this wide depth of knowledge within that industry that gave you that power, essentially.

SB: Yeah. It's good to be laser-focused, and I definitely was laser-focused.

That is the only reason why I was able to work on TV like I did.

If you are not laser-focused and you are not a hustler, you really have to think— I lived at the time in North Jersey and I would take the train or the bus into New York City to go to work.

If I saw someone that had a CNN jacket, I would be, "Excuse me, you work for CNN?"

"Yes, I do, I am a cameraman". I was like, "Okay, here is my resume, would you mind—."

I literally was doing that all the time. I always had a resume on me, wherever I went. I would go up to people, up to speakers, at events and say, "I love what you said, I know you work for Dateline."

This is a true story, this is how I got my NBC page gig, I walked up to a speaker, I 20 years old, and said, "I love what you said, I love Dateline, I want to work for NBC."

And she said, "Well, tell me about yourself." I told her all about the 8 internships, she was like, "I am picking your resume. Call me, you can come in."

She had me come in, she was an associate producer, she had been an NBC page, she liked me, she pushed me to the right people.

I had to go through the process, but if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have even probably got the first meeting.

RF: You can be in a situation where you have 12 internships and you can have all of this "first-hand experience" but it still took you actually going up and utilizing an opportunity, jumped on it.

Even further than just getting the exposure, you had to take it one step further. I think that that's kind of a classic treat of somebody who is in that PR and who is a professional communicator— creating your own opportunities even within the opportunities that you have.

SB: Exactly, and there was no one that was coaching me on this.

I had it innately in me to do these things.

No one was like, "Next time you go to an event you should walk up to somebody". I knew to walk up to somebody and to just put myself out there.

I could tell you that the students of today, most of them don't have this. It's scary, they're waiting, they go, "I can contact her on LinkedIn," I was like, "Okay, so have you thought about calling her office? Have you looked to see if she knows anybody else?"

I was slipping resumes on the doors— seriously, I did it.

Paula Zahn was the host of CBS "This Morning" and I was visiting someone else at CBS who was a referral.

I saw that she was married to a guy who went to Boston University. She was the alumni magazine I wrote up a letter, it was all premeditated that said, "I saw you in Boston University Alumni magazine, I'm a recent graduate and your husband went there, I really would love to work for CBS".

And I wrote that up, it was my resume, I slipped it under her door when I was in the building at CBS, and she called me two weeks later— she called me!

All it is about is getting out there.

RF: Yeah, I bet you're full of great tips and tricks for the modern-day page.

Maybe there's a book for you or maybe just a white paper.

I think that there is a lost art of aggressively getting what you want versus sitting back in the back of the chair. I think you have correctly identified these younger generations.

Why do you think it is that they don't have some of that same approach?

Why is it not intuitive to them these days?

Do you have any guesses or insights about how things have changed and why?

SB: Technology.

RF: There we go.

SB: It's because they became relying on it.

They've relied on the fact that they can reach someone so quickly on a text or they could send an email or just to follow them or try to link in with them or whatever.

They're used to that and it's just become easy.

But when it comes to employment and getting what you want, whether that's you're trying to get a job, whether you're trying to get a speaking engagement, you have to go a bit further, to transition into speaking.

This week, I had 2 meetings with people for 2018. I emailed them and said, "I spoke for you this year, I have some ideas for things that I can bring back to your group again, let's talk," and I had meetings.

But I asked for those meetings, they didn't say, "Shakira, you were such a great speaker this year, let's talk about how we can do something else with you next year."

That's not what people normally do. I give the idea.

RF: That's a very proactive approach. I love the fact you “give the idea.”

Everybody is maybe sitting back on their haunches waiting, but you come up with the idea of what you want.

Then you pretty much use your Jedi Mind Tricks and determination and strategic communication to get in front of them and just straight up say like, "Here's what I think would work," right?

SB: Yeah, and I give them a list, I always have a little 2 or 3 topics that I want to talk about.

First, I find out exactly what their plans are for the year, what are your goals, who are you trying to reach.

Then I say, "Okay, well I've got a couple of talks that might help your goals. I know you are trying to reach these people, you're trying to do more of ‘X’, maybe you can have me come in and talk about that."

I always make sure I establish a good report so that I can actually invite them into conversation with me to talk about future planning.

I definitely don't wait, I have a few more of those to do, but I think I'm starting a little bit earlier than I did last year, but it's good, because people are trying to chop up their budgets right now.

They're looking and seeing like, "Who are we going to pay for this, who are we going to invite, but not pay—" that's a big thing.

RF: You know what it makes me think of right now? I'm just visualizing you as the little person on someone's shoulder and then you're actually talking with that person.

You are on the person's little shoulder, whispering in their ear the concerns and the goals and making them think about what you know they're concerned with.

You just plant the seed and then harvest the food.

SB: Exactly, really that's all it is.

It's helpful for me also to get into the conversation about what their goals are, even if in that conversation I don't have a topic that will address what they're trying to do for the year.

I'll have no information about it, but I can quickly draw something up, and give it back to them.

And the one call I had, we had a great conversation, we started it, and she was like, "You know, I have to go, but let's get something else on the calendar." So, I have yet another meeting with this person.

And hopefully, I'll get a couple of difference speaking gigs out of that one. All of this is in the training, it starts way back from college and the hustling to get internships, then to get jobs on television— it all set me up for where I am today.

RF: I'm excited to get into what your tips would be if you had a platform like this podcast, for the World of Speakers, people who want to get their foot in the door, slip their Speaker One-Sheet under the door of the executives of the place that they want to speak at.

Share some of this wisdom and shortcut your trials and tribulations to help people get ahead start.

What are some of the top things you can suggest for people to improve their presentations, their approaches what they're doing? What do you think?

SB: One of the things that I always do when I'm actually preparing a presentation is I come up with some boilerplate anecdotal stories, that relate to the content I am delivering.

RF: For somebody who is thinking about the fact that you're boiling something on a boiling plate, just to clear that out of their mind— what is this boilerplate for those who maybe don't know?

SB: Another term for that would be "a go-to story". Something that is your standard information that you always give in your talk.

I do a lot of speaking on branding, and when I talk about branding and perception, I have a "go to" of using Barbara Corcoran "Shark Tank", the real estate mogul.

I love some of her stories that I've heard by watching videos of her speaking. I've used some of her stories to draw home a point that I want the audience to go home with.

I have that story down pat, it's just like she's telling it, but I am telling it. I don't take it for myself, I tell her name and I tell her story, I have that story and it's always there.

It's not like I have all this information on a slide. I might show her photo and quote from her, but then I tell her story.

That's always after I've provided some content in the presentation that relates to that story, so that they can connect the dots. I always have more than one story.

I always think about what real-world example do I have that I can interject in, after I've gone over the subject matter so that they can have it understand.

Storytelling is really important when you're in front of a group and you are there and you're presenting.

You have to be careful not to be so focused on the bullets, but also weave in some stories to illustrate your point even further.

RF: I like the fact that you are leveraging people who are well known, and you're tapping into these stories that create this credibility and the "Halo Effect".

It's not necessarily your story, but you have people stories in your pocket.

SB: Exactly, and I do have some of my own stories. I told you a bunch of them in this interview.

I have my own stories and I also have client related stories, and then let me just go into that a little bit.

If you are someone who is looking to get clients through speaking, you want to get clients through speaking. What you can do is, you can just give examples of how you've helped someone like them.

I have several of those stories, and it's better to have those really buttoned up before do your talk. It's good to start with a case study.

Maybe you've done a case study on one of the clients that you've worked with, and you can boil that down to a couple of minutes of talking about how you've helped them and what their problems were.

Talk about how you remedied them and how you've gotten them to a point where now they're happy or they are making money or whatever the end result was supposed to be.

Even if I am counseling a business owner, I always use examples of how I've helped someone like them.

That way I'm not selling, I'm just telling. I'm telling a story and through that example, they see what I can do for them.

That's a great way to have an anecdotal story that's already pre-planned and thought about, that you can interject at any time.

Also to be prepared for questions, because sometimes you get questions, you ask people to ask questions, then they say something and you should have a couple of "go to" stories that might fit in there, but always be thinking of storytelling as part of your talks.

It's founded on a story, it's not your story, but it's a story about someone that you're helping and it's not just anyone, it's someone who is a mirror or a look-alike to the audience that you are talking about.

Then you're able to tell instead of sell a story that is your story and a client story.

It also gives you a battle card for answering a question to refer back to, and you can deliver the nuggets of what you actually do.

This is a serious arsenal within just a case study at the surface level, maybe people don't think the value that you have as a speaker leveraging that. I like that.

SB: People take what they've done for granted. As a speaker, as a professional, as a consultant, whatever it is that you do, you have to sit back and look at your accomplishments.

If you look at your accomplishments, you're going to see that there are some things in there that is going to provide valuable information and those are the stories.

You have to look at everything you've done, your entire body of work, and see whether there is lessons people can learn something from.

I don't look at it as an 80/20, or 50/50, I don't do any of that.

I personally look at this subject matter, decide if I have a story that's worth telling, and that they will find interesting and be impressed by, because that's also what it's about.

Sometimes like I said, I borrow famous people's stories, because sometimes people don't know other people's stories in depth, they might know it on the surface, but they may not know those anecdotal pieces, and I try to pull those out and use those.

RF: I oftentimes throw out on Twitter questions for listeners to ask, and you're talking about the storytelling, and it's almost the visual that you're creating for the person in their mind.

You also refer to sort of the slides, so one question I've gotten before is the specific process that people go through to research and create your visuals.

You're talking about the slide— is there any secret method that you go about to create the presentation visual that is in conjunction with your content and stories?

SB: The way we visualize on a slide, it seems like it's changing every 6 months or so. I just look at other people's slides and it'll be like just a photo, and they just talk over the photo.

I am like, "Do I want to talk over the photo?" I guess I could, but maybe it's a photo and a quote, or something like that.

That process for me again is very dependent on the subject matter and what's going to be relevant to the message that I'm trying to deliver.

I would say that it's important to have an understanding of attention spans, and not just spew out everything you know on a slide.

I also want people to spend more time listening to me and not worrying about what's on the slide.

I just did a presentation on social media and cyber fraud and how social media can open you up to some weaknesses that could bilk your customers, or you.

Someone could pretend like they are you, create what I call "The Zombie Website" with your logo on it, and start talk to customers and get credit card numbers and stuff like that, a really interesting topic.

I decided for that I was going to keep it really sleek. I was just going to have maybe like a photo and then just a few words per bullet, and then most of it would come from me, most of it is them listening to me speak.

This is probably the first presentation that I've done with so few words on a slide and I liked it, I probably will do it again.

I've been trying to play around with it, but certain things I want to make sure that the people have.

I go really, really in the weed sometimes on branding topics, and it's helpful for people to see more information on the slide.

I'm going to figure out other ways to do it now because I did like having the fewer words on the side and really having them focusing on what I was saying to them.

I told a lot of stories in that particular presentation on cyber fraud in social media.

RF: I like the fact that you're looking to see what other people are doing. The fact is that the way people are using slides and visuals changes.

The best practice would be to be paying attention to other people's slides and then taking new ideas and trying them out. That minimalistic approach I've definitely seen more popular these days.

I wouldn't say you do exactly what somebody else is doing, you don't have to do that, you shouldn't, but it's good to kind of find out.

What I do is I sometimes is, I'll sign up for these technology providers, whether it's something like social media management tools, they're always having free webinars to learn.

I watch those a lot just to see how they're putting together their slides, and I try to go to, I get invitations to sit through accounting related webinars or law, and just to see what everybody is doing.

What I do is, "Oh, I like that, I love how he or she did that slide and how they talked over it," and then that's something that I can try to emulate, later on.

RF: I just realized something, you've turned in your passion for being aggressive with internships to your passion with being aggressive for being and sitting in on webinars, right?

You talk about sort of the value of all these different perspectives from this internship, like that's a trait that you still have and you're actively seeking out.

I guess if you're at a webinar of someone else, you're kind of like interning, you're learning from them.

It's a very low threshold of responsibility you can bail out if you want to, you don't have to talk to the person, right, just like a page in the hallway you can sit there and be a fly on the wall.

RF: You're there, you're paid, you're in the hallway, and you are able to pay attention to that.

Okay, so what I'm getting from you is that stories are still very important part of the process.

But there is a subcategory of stories which you particularly leverage, which are case studies, to not only incorporate your story with it, but your customer story that relates to the audience, that gives you an ability to backup your answers with research.

It shows examples of what you do for clients, so you're not selling but you're telling.

And then this idea of keeping an eye on best practices for visuals, it really is depending on the audience and the topic, so there's not one specific method.

From the presentation and speaking, what is maybe another pillar of advice that you give to people?

Then we'll transition into how you take this and then try to get more gigs and continue on with monetizing your message.

What's another big top-level piece of advice that you'd give to someone who is super stoked to be an intern on your webinar?

SB: One of the things that I personally do is I try to learn as much as possible about other industries, listen to other speakers, be willing to deliver a talk for the first time ever, while combining it with something that I know.

By the way, I didn't really know that much about cyber fraud in social media, I definitely know a lot about social media and communicating through that, but I actually had to do research on that and to connect the dots, because it’s relationship to fraud wasn't that obvious to me.

Once I connected the dots I was like, "Wow, there really are a lot of weaknesses in social media that could lead to some sort of fraudulent activity."

I had to do the research on that, I had to read white papers and watch videos and create my talk around some of the things that I learned in there.

It is definitely on my radar now, and I accepted to talk knowing I would have to do that, because it wasn't anything that I had in my back pocket, I really had to learn it.

You really have to be willing to learn a subject matter that you may not be familiar with and as long as it's connected to something that you know, like social media for me, I think that's fine. I wouldn't go and try to do a cardiology talk that's completely out of my league.

RF: You might be able to talk about how medical doctors or cardiologists can leverage social media to get more exposure, more clients and mitigate their risk when it comes to something.

I see what you're saying, I like this.

SB: I would not be able to talk about advances in cardiology with regards to curing diseases or whatever, there's no way I would do that, that's completely off base.

I could speak to cardiologists on personal branding or something like that. If they want to be thought leaders in their field.

That's no problem, but on their subject, no, I could not do that, but I have a willingness to adapt to what the client is looking for in the talk.

That's a characteristic that I think every speaker needs to have, to not just work on the stuff that you know, but to listen to what the client is looking for, what is the theme of the event.

Is there something that you need to tie into your normal talk and then how do you do that and do the research to find that.

And always be looking for ways to expand your knowledge, even if you don't need it right then.

I did not remember downloading those files. I had no plans to do that talk.

RF: I'm guilty, I'll do that too, I will be like, "Oh white paper cool, download it," and then just like not have it.

But you had them so it was meant to be, it was in the back of your mind there.

SB: Yeah exactly, because I'm always looking to learn other things that could support what I already know.

Evidently, I had that since last year.

RF: What I like about this, is there's this kind of ongoing debate or discussion about whether or not as a speaker you should be super hyper-focused on one topic and just own that, and sort of "find the riches in the niches", and then there's this other which is maybe be more of a multipurpose speaker.

What I think you've tapped into is a way to combine those in a whole third category which is being able to maneuver your core strengths and adapt them to speak to these different groups.

Has that opened up an opportunity for you, but also kept you in a focus so that you're still known and your brand is not affected, like, "Wow, she's all over the place."

SB: You've got to keep it together.

I keep it with within the branding, PR, communications, small business sort of development.

I keep it all within there, I try to speak to small businesses or business owners in general.

When it comes to branding, I could talk to anybody about developing a personal brand, it is not something that I'm afraid to do to any group of people.

If I need to be a little bit more nimble with the subject matter to make it fit— I do it.

You're right, some people are like, "This is what I say, that's that."

That's not me, and I think you're going to get booked more if you can work with the conference organizer whoever is pulling together the list of speakers.

RF: Very cool. Speaking of booking, this is a great transition into your tips.

I have a feeling you have the Golden Goose when it comes to tips for getting your speaker foot into these doors.

How can you help people get more gigs, get money for their message?

What works for you and what do you think is translatable to other people?

SB: Speaking has been something I've been really focused on from the last two and a half years.

Slowly but surely putting more of my own energy into it, and as I'm putting more energy into it, guess what— I'm getting more opportunities.

I ask the universe for something and it gives it to me.

I think about having more speaking engagements, "I've got to get more", and I don't say, "Oh I wish would call me," I say, "What am I going to do to get more speaking engagements?"

RF: Right, I see you very much as an outbound, like you see your target, and then you go get it, right?

SB: Yeah, I self-talk and I say, "You know what— what are you going to do, what can you do to get more speaking, who can you call to see if they need someone on this topic, are they planning something?" When I do that, it yields results, always, because I'm taking action.

I would say is important for any speaker who's looking to get more bookings and to get their foot in the door, is they have to start working on getting the right content that's going to help uplift them.

RF: It's hard to get a good picture of you speaking on stage especially because 90% of the shots are your mouth in an awkward position, looking in various forms kind of like Halloween costume or something.

But the fact is you're saying, "Hire somebody to come to your event, to get those pictures so that you don't have to depend on friends or weird cellphone images to build up this repertoire of— " and what would you call it, is it for your portfolio or just for your record, your repetition?

SB: For your brand, for your speaking brand. You're going to need a speaking website, mine is ShakiraBrown.com, shameless plug.

You're going to have to have a speaking website so you need to have it populated with some photos.

It's good to know photographers, a bunch of them. You have photographers who are so high end, if you hire them, they will never spend 3 hours with you at an event.

Then you have the ones who are sort of like chill, you can offer them a price they'll take it.

They'll give you everything they shoot— those are the ones you really want, the ones who are really chilled about it, who are like, "That's great, I'll take your price and I'll give you everything I shoot."

The ones who are a little fancier are going to charge you a high price and then limit what you get from them. In the beginning, you need to have a whole body of work, you need to see everything.

What I did for the first event that I hired a photographer for, I told the photographer I wanted to do some candid shots and headshots.

We actually did some staging, I staged speaking so I can get my face in the right way that I wanted it. I pretended that I was actually talking and had the lights on and so I got the look that I wanted.

Then also she was like, "Why don't you bring a different jacket and you can change your clothes and we can do some other shots."

And we totally did that and it was a great day, I didn't spend a fortune, it was like $225, she was cheap.

That's very, very important as it relates to getting your foot in the door is to kind of look the part.

RF: That comes down to the brand right?

How important is a focus on your personal brand when you're a speaker?

SB: Very important.

RF: You are like "How am I going to say this nicely, Ryan, that sounds like a dumb question." Your silence spoke volumes, your silence spoke volumes.

SB: It's extremely important because people need to believe that you're the expert that your bio says that you are, so you got to live that and it starts off with what they see and read.

One of the things that I try to do when I'm doing a speaking engagement is prepare an introduction that kind of sets it up, I even type in "Please join me in giving a hand for Shakira Brown."

I type that up and I hand it off to the person who is going to be reading it, so then my intro was always one that sets me up in such a way that people are just already excited to listen to me.

That's branding.

RF: Yeah, you're controlling that brand message as opposed to showing up and all of a sudden they read it and you realize it's an old bio, or it's something that's not relevant for what you're talking about.

That's a good one, just preparing the opening remarks for the event.

SB: One of the things that I draw upon is my public relations background.

As a publicist, I have written up introductions for clients, so I just now do it for myself— I write it up, I hand it off and what happens is other speakers are like, "What, we didn't get, that."

I am like, "You didn't hand it in. You didn't get that because you didn't have one because you didn't type it up."

I used to be so detailed with clients. I don't have any clients right now that I do a lot of speaking work with anymore.

My client is me right now for speaking, which is necessary because as you know speaking takes time.

It takes time to pitch yourself to fill out forms, oh the forms!

But I would type up introductions if you have a difficult name in that introduction, please phonetically spell your name so that when they read it it's correct.

RF: That's a good one too.

SB: Yeah, that's old school news tip. In news when you have the anchors reading things, the anchors know how to say things, and actually, they bust things all the time.

We would write in the script the phonetic spelling so that they can be able to pronounce it correctly, so they didn't look like jerks when they pronounce a dignitary's name incorrectly.

I do that in my introductions as well. For me it's okay, I've had clients that had really tricky names and I've had to do that.

There's a lot of speakers with tricky last names tricky, tricky first names, spell it out so that there's no question on how to say it.

RF: I like that. You said like, "I am my own speaking client" that is rad, and I think everybody needs to have that PR mentality for themselves right, nobody's going to toot your own horn better than you can.

But then there's a fine line because you want to separate yourself, and not always be tooting our own horn, but you're creating resources for other people to play the trumpet or whatever they are, with the notes and the music that you want them to play.

SB: Exactly, yeah, that's exactly right Ryan.

RF: Very cool. Hey, this has been a lot of fun.

I am more inspired than ever to get out there and sort of dabble into these random other pockets of information to pull from.

I think that going back and finding case studies, I have not really incorporated case studies into talks, I'm more of a storyteller but telling stories through case studies sounds like a very strong addition to the repertoire.

And the phonetic name spelling— I think that's a little golden nugget there too, all kinds of stuff.

Any sort of final truth or value bomb that you have that is just burning to get out for everybody that is on the top of your mind from the PR or communication standpoint to help get more gigs?

SB: Well, let's talk a little bit about getting more paid gigs.

That's something that I've been laser-focused on, everybody starts off doing as many speaking engagements as you can, paid or unpaid.

You've got to come to the point where you say, "I am no longer going to speak for free." Some people are afraid to turn things down.

I'm not. You have to get to that mental point, that mindset of, "I'm only going to talk when I'm getting paid." But I have a secondary rule to this, that this is a Shakira Brown original okay?

RF: Okay, let's hear it.

SB: This is what I say, "There has got to be money in my pocket, or in the room."

RF: I like that, okay.

SB: What I mean by that is if I'm getting paid to speak— great; if they want me to speak for free, then it needs to be in front of a group of people who maybe at some point can hire me.

I can create a list that I can drip market to them and maybe get them to hire me in the future, but I am not going to speak to a room of students.

For instance, I had an offer from someone who is a college professor who knows me very well and was like, "I would love for you to speak to my students."

My new thing over the last year or so that I say to people, I don't ask, "Does it pay."

This is what I say, I say, "Oh this is wonderful, I'm really excited, thank you so much for thinking of me. Who would I send my invoice to, this is my fee?"

RF: That's sneaky.

SB: I don't even ask questions, now they're forced to actually deal with the issue, right.

The response was, "Oh I don't have a budget to pay speakers at this time", and I just graciously bowed out, I was like, "You know what, thank you I understand. In the future when you get a budget let me know I would be happy to come speak to the students."

That is a classic money in my pocket or in the room, there was neither on that one.

What student is hiring me, right they are college students they are not hiring me to do anything.

RF: No, they're going around waving their resumes looking for internships.

SB: Exactly. And you know what— colleges have money to pay us, so why on earth would I speak at a school for free? They have budgets to pay speakers.

Now, sometimes certain people will have a budget and they want to pay their friends, they're really good friends that they want to hook them up.

That's fine, but don't ask me to speak for free, cover my time, maybe you don't want to pay me what I want, but offer me something, say, "You know, what we don't have that amount, but we can give you this."

And typically I will accept something within reason, just so that my time or travel is covered, but to actually say to me, "I don't have a budget," that's not acceptable, there's got to be money in my pocket or in the room.

RF: I like that, that's a good hashtag, it's a little long but I like it.

SB: You could use the acronym.

RF: Here's my Twitter challenge everybody. I like to have a Twitter challenge because I like Twitter.

For anybody out there who is going to take some of these pieces of advice from Shakira, whether it's "you need money in your pocket and the room" or "asking people where to send the invoice" definitely tweet us up and let us know, I am @ryanfoland.

SB: It's really that simple, people just need to take the time to look at what they really want to do as it relates to speaking, and to go out there and get it.

They have to be their own PR person. Yes, you could hire a PR person, but it is much more cost effective in the beginning especially that you look at what you're doing as you are your own promoter, and that you take it seriously enough that you agree that you're not going to just speak whenever or wherever.

That you're going to be a little bit more diligent about finding these opportunities, about creating stories that relate to what you do and what you ultimately want to sell, whether you have a business and you want to be a consultant and get more clients.

The most important thing is that you figure out ways to get the money to get paid, because it's out there, do not let anyone tell you that it's not.

Start looking at getting paid, start turning down unpaid opportunities and what you want will be right in front of you.

RF: I ditto that, and everybody: you need to do the same.

Hey Shakira, this has been so much fun, I'm so glad that we got to hang out and talk.

I'll be looking to connect with you later on in life, maybe we'll share the stage sometime somewhere in the world.

I am very excited to have you on the show and I am now my own PR agent, it's official.

SB: I'm glad I inspired you, and thank you so much for having me, I had a terrific time.

RF: All right, everybody, check out Shakira and what she's doing and maybe listen to some Shakira while you're doing it.

This is Ryan, we are signing out with another fun episode here on the World of Speakers podcast.

Check out older episodes and look forward to newer ones. We'll see you later, Bye Shakira.

SB: Bye-bye.

A bit about World of Speakers

World of Speakers is a weekly podcast that helps people find their own voice, and teaches them how to use their voice to develop a speaking business.

We cover topics like: what works versus what doesn't, ideas on how to give memorable presentations, speaking tips, and ideas on how to build a speaking business.

Connect with Shakira Brown:

• SpeakerHub profile

• Website

• Twitter | LinkedIn

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