Ryan Foland speaks with Eric Sim, a managing director at UBS Investments Bank, turned speaker with over 2 million followers on LinkedIn. He's a founder of the Institute of Life, whose mission is to help professionals become successful at work and in life.
In this episode of our series, Ryan and Eric talk about the ups and downs of navigating through this pandemic as a speaker. They stress on the importance of the role social media will play in getting you booked to speak on digital platforms.
One of the key messages in this interview is that no matter who you are, no matter how good you are as a speaker, there's always value in incorporating more examples, more stories, more people, more change up to fight that Zoom fatigue and truly create your own version of an E-note.
Tune in for an interview full of ideas and advice on how to prosper in the times of COVID-19.
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Welcome to the World of Speakers podcast, brought to you by SpeakerHub. In this special series, we interview speaking experts on how to navigate the Coronavirus as a professional speaker. Here's your host Ryan Foland:
Ryan Foland: Ahoy everyone, and welcome to another episode of the World of Speakers.
I'm your host, Ryan Foland, and today I'm going to introduce you to Eric Sim.
Now Eric not only has 2 million followers on LinkedIn, but he's also a former managing director at UBS Investments Bank and a CFA charter holder.
He's a founder of the Institute of Life, whose mission is to help professionals become successful at work and in life.
He has taught at some of the top universities in Asia, including the National University of Singapore.
Eric, welcome to the show. How are you, sir?
Eric Sim: Thank you, Ryan, for having me.
Ryan Foland: Now, before we get into understanding your expertise when it comes to speaking in the digital world, making this transition during a pandemic and actually creating an experience that's better than things were pre-pandemic, I want our audience, and selfishly, myself, just to get to know you a little bit more.
We're going to do that through a single story.
Let's say that I'm talking to a friend later on today, and they're like, "Ryan, what's going on today?"
I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I had this super fun conversation with this guy from Singapore—," and they're like, "Well, tell me about him."
And then instead of listing off your 2 million followers, and your accolades, and all the acronyms, I would say,
"You know what, funny story he actually told me. He told me this one time, blah, blah, blah."
And so based on that story, I'll be able to communicate who you are. What would be a story that you think could do that job?
Eric Sim: In Singapore, we had our lockdown several months ago, it's not called a lockdown, it's called a circuit breaker.
Ryan Foland: Circuit breaker, really?
Eric Sim: Yeah, it's called a circuit breaker, shops are closed, no more dining out, stuff like that.
Then I have several speaking engagements coming up, and I think those speaking engagements may become online, or some people might just want to hire me to do online.
So on the very last day before the circuit breaker, when all the shops were still open, I went out starting from the morning, maybe around 10 a.m., to look for equipment.
I bought 2 cameras, 3 different microphones, I made sure I got my iPad pro with a pencil, I ordered my Atem Mini, which was out of stock at that time.
Ryan Foland: So you went on a circuit breaker shopping spree?
Eric Sim: Yes, without knowing how to use any of these gadgets.
And with the amount of money I spent, I probably wouldn't be able to break even with 3, 4 engagements, because I thought, "If I need them then, there's no way to get them."
So even if you are short of one main light or one field light.
Ryan Foland: Have you always been a compulsive buyer?
When you think you need something do you just go get it?
Is it a part of your personality?
Eric Sim: No, actually I am one of those that will think and think and think.
I wanted the guarantee that if I want the equipment I have it, because the lockdown could go on for who knows how many months, and in the end it was for 2 months.
So during those 2 months, I was able to do some good online speeches, fortunately.
Although I didn't use all the equipment, it's good buying more than less.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, well I can't wait till when the circuit breaker's done, and then you hold a garage sale, and then I come over to Singapore and I grab up all the tech stuff that you figure that you didn't want.
So I'm learning more about you.
You're somebody who likes to be prepared.
You like to err on the side of caution, and on the side of caution during a pandemic is buying way more technical equipment then you need, and then you'll just sort of figure it out later.
But we also know that you were a managing partner at UBS. You're this charter financial analyst, so there's like a finance and an analytical part of your brain that you can't get away from.
So I'm curious about the topics that you speak on, because I have some guesses in my mind, but what do you love to talk about?
What is your domain of speaking expertise?
Eric Sim: So far I speak on 2 topics.
One is career skills, the other one is personal branding. I do that for various organizations, it could be a financial institution, it could be for CFA, or university students, from undergraduates to EMBA.
Then for career skills, some people want to know banking and finance, but I mostly talk about soft skills, people skills, networking.
And also how do we plan our careers, how do you deal with difficult bosses, how do you deal with toxic colleagues, and what are the small actions that you can take to create big success in your career.
Ryan Foland: If there's one thing that I think we are all facing, is that with these external challenges in the world, we really have to look at the people who we are investing our time with from a relationship standpoint.
Because I just feel like we have less time to deal with BS, and less time to deal with drama, less time to deal with people who bring you down.
Eric Sim: Definitely, because I think people are already down. Some are losing their jobs, some are worried about the future and the last thing they need is a boss breathing down their neck or a partner that they cannot trust.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, you don't have to get into details, but either true or false — has every business partner you've worked with and every boss been amazing, personable and your best friend?
Eric Sim: Call yourself lucky if you have one or two good bosses, and I am not surprised. Really, just one or two that you can count on.
I'm skeptical, of course, investment banking, it's a very cutthroat business.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, it makes me think we're talking and we're going to dig in today about digital tools. We're going to talk about the transition as a speaker, as things start to hopefully open up a bit more.
But if you imagine the new way that we're all communicating, it's digitally, whether we have the new camera or the microphone or we're just using what we have, the relationships that we have, not just as a speaker to an audience, but the relationships between co-workers, between colleagues, between you and your boss, between your family, between your loved ones, like we're really looking at a fundamental shift of how we just interact as humans.
What are your thoughts on that? Do you think that's a good thing, a bad thing, good and bad?
Eric Sim: For me, this circuit breaker or lockdown doesn't affect me as much, because I live in the digital world very much, because I'm on LinkedIn talking to my friends, family, and followers.
And once in a while, if I don't see them, I'll just drop them a message every 6 months,
"Hey, I’m just dropping a note to stay in touch."
One, of course, to get them to come and read my articles, the other one is a good way to stay in touch, and then they also see my posts every week.
So somehow we can jump back in right away when we meet.
So I just met up with a friend from the city. I haven't met him for 11 years, and when we met we just picked up from 2 weeks ago,
"Hey, I read your article, what do you think about that?"
So it doesn't really feel like we haven't met for that long.
I try to add value, I think that's what I try to do.
And people will say, "Hey, I like your video, I like the gadget that you introduced, can you tell me more?"
And that fosters the relationship because they can derive value by connecting with you.
Ryan Foland: They derive value by connecting with you.
I think I've gotten to know you a little bit more, and value, I think, is a big part of your brand.
And the reason why you went out and panic-bought a whole bunch of equipment is because in the back of your mind you're thinking,
"The best way I can deliver value to people I connect with is to give them a crisp experience, to give them a nice audio experience, to give them something visually that they can look at."
So that's a very altruistic and a very empathetic and a very non-selfish way to look at adding value.
If I were to now describe you to my friend I'd be like,
"Oh my gosh, he's the guy that the day before the pandemic, he went and bought everything possible. Why? Not for himself, not for his ego, but so that what he's communicating does so at a higher value."
And I think that's really cool.
Eric Sim: What I wanted to do is, if people bothered to come and listen to me, whether it is 10 people, or 100, or 1000, I should make sure that they have the best experience because they are coming, they are going to spend one hour with me, so I want to make sure the audio is good, the visual is superb, better than what they see, so they don't suffer from Zoom fatigue.
That was my whole thinking.
Ryan Foland: And it makes sense, and I'm seeing that.
The idea that you want to have the way in which you're communicating at the highest value only leads to what you're saying as being potential for high value.
Now, we all can't be like completely giving the most amazing value all of the time, it's just almost impossible, but the fact that that's what you're striving for, right, you shoot for the stars, you might hit the moon kind of concept, it's a really valuable way to look at driving value in a digital world.
Eric Sim: Yeah, and you know what, Ryan, it's beginning to pay off, because when organizers, when you want to invite speakers, they saw my version, they saw my video, and that set the benchmark. So in the end I got so many people coming to invite me to speak, and I say, "Hey, how did you get to know about me?"
They say, "Hey, somebody talked about you," sometimes they mention an interesting camera setup.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, and it gives you that digital first impression, and I think that that's super important, especially when the organizers, they only want to deliver value to the audience.
And if you come with a high-value setup, it sets you up for high value to the audience.
Now let's jump into gadgets, because I don't want to sit here and talk about the stats of the camera and get too technical, but let's talk about gadgets.
What are some of the things for speakers who want to continue to gain traction in a digital first world? Let's geek out a little bit on digital.
Eric Sim: Sure, of course, the microphone is very key.
I've tried the lavalier, which I think all speakers are familiar with.
I tried a shotgun, then in the end I chose a USB mic because it's a big mic, it has a big diaphragm, it doesn't pick up noise, because a lot of time we are speaking from home and there's echo noise, there's somebody closing the door.
If you get some other mic that picks up the slightest noise, it's not good for your audience, that's why I chose this USB mic.
For the camera, I use a Sony Mirrorless camera, which cost more than my laptop.
And also I use my iPad Pro with a pencil, so when I write on my slides the audience can see.
Ryan Foland: So when you say write on your slides, I'm interested for a second because part of my brand, part of what I love to do, is draw stick figures.
All of my keynotes are hand-drawn stick figures, and I have the iPad Pro, the newest one, and through Zoom you can share your screen with the screen mirroring so that you can have that.
And then it's way easier than the whiteboard with the mouse because with the mouse your drawing makes you look like you're in third grade.
Eric Sim: Yeah.
Ryan Foland: Now tell me about some of the types of speaking that you're doing and how this digital translates?
Because I know that you're teaching classes, you're probably speaking from home.
Do you carry a whole camera case with you everywhere or do you have different set-ups?
Eric Sim: So far it's been speaking from home, exactly what you're seeing right now.
So I converted a part of my room into this case with a bookcase behind, and yeah, so far it's been like this.
I don't have to carry my stuff around, but I think next month I may need to go down to the university, because the university is doing hybrid. Instead of having 100 students in the classroom they say,
"Okay only 20% of the students can come into class. The other 80%, the other 80 students you'll do it via Zoom."
Rather than 100% Zoom, which means that if you do 100% Zoom, students don't have that.
Ryan Foland: The classroom experience, right, the connectivity.
Eric Sim: Yeah, with classmates and with the lecturer.
So everybody has 20% of that time.
If that's the case, I need to check the school equipment. If the school equipment is not as good as mine, then I guess I'll have to bring mine.
The mic is pretty portable, I think I can just put it all into one small suitcase, including my main light.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, because it's one thing about being a professor in a digital world, it's another thing to be like a high-value output, it's garbage in, garbage out.
And if I can hardly see you, if I can hardly hear you, I'm going to lose that interaction, it's not going to be there.
Eric Sim: Yeah, and also, when I do webinars for those speakers who are also providing training, the way I do it for 2 hours, it goes like this — the first 5 minutes, I got somebody to introduce me, so I don't introduce myself.
Ryan Foland: Okay.
Eric Sim: Either my student, my teaching assistant, or the organizer introduces me, they ask me a few questions.
Why do I want to do that?
Because people don't come on time to Zoom.
Ryan Foland: Oh.
Eric Sim: For example, you start at 9, then either you wait until 9:05 before you start and then those people who come in early, on time, they wait for 5 minutes and nothing's happening.
Ryan Foland: Right.
Eric Sim: I say, "These 5 minutes are the interview, like what you are doing now with me," so for those people who are late they miss the 5 minutes of the interview but they still get a full presentation.
Then I make sure I have a 10-minute break at the half-way point. If I start at 9:00 a.m, 10:00 a.m will be the break.
Then 2 minutes before I start, I go on Zoom and I am like, "Starting in 2 minutes time."
Because usually, they're on their audio, they are not in their seats but they can still hear.
So then we get people to come back.
5 minutes I think it feels too rushed, some people have to rush back, and then you have to wait again, so I say yeah, just 10 minutes is better so that they can focus.
And I usually bring in a guest speaker.
I'm already the guest speaker for 2 hours, now I bring another guest speaker, or sometimes two, to talk for like 5, 10 minutes after the break.
Because people get fatigued if they keep listening to the same voice.
Ryan Foland: I like that.
Eric Sim: No matter how good you are. So I get somebody, a different perspective, I go as many as three people, then I did a panel for like 15 minutes after the break.
Then I have a breakout room before the break, maybe at around the 40 minute point, to get people to get to know each other.
Because what they are missing from going to a real live conference or a classroom is the interaction.
I try to find a reason for them to come together, so depending on your culture, sometimes I say,
Introduce your favorite food. Instead of talking about your credentials, just talk about your favorite food."
Or if you're a speaker, "What's the best story, or what's the gadget that you like best?"
Ryan Foland: So let's talk just for a second about breakout rooms because I think there is a lot of value in understanding the best practices around it.
You put people into a group of 4, is that the typical size?
Eric Sim: Yeah, 4 for 5 minutes.
Ryan Foland: 4 for 5 minutes. And then you give them certain prompts to follow?
Eric Sim: You must have prompts, you cannot leave it to them. If you leave it to them, it's not enough.
So I say, for example in the school environment, "Introduce your favorite food, why do you want to come to Singapore, and why do you want to do this course?" something like that.
But I give them something that they really like to talk about.
Or if you want them to really put that right I say,
"Talk about one thing that you like to do best, or one thing that you do that gives you a lot of energy."
Ryan Foland: Interesting.
You want to know something that I use, which you're welcome to use? Have you ever heard of the game called Roses and Thorns?
Eric Sim: No.
Ryan Foland: So I don't know where I initially learned about this, but I was on either a camping trip, or sailing, or doing something and somebody said,
"Hey, the trips are winding down, let's play Roses and Thorns."
I was like, "What are you talking about?"
The idea is everyone shares their rose, their favorite moment of the trip, and everybody shares their thorn, the thing that just didn't go right, when they stubbed their toe, or when they fell down, or something like that.
And so in a breakout room, I find that it's a fun way of getting people to share something that's good but also something that's bad or something they struggled with.
I'm a big believer, and my book called "Ditch The Act" is about how we really connect in seeing each other's stories in ourselves.
If you tell me about what an amazing rockstar success you are, maybe I don't relate to that as much. I'd admire you for it.
But when you tell me that you have a struggle of figuring out how to focus your camera, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, he's just like me".
Eric Sim: Yeah, that's a very good way to have a breakout room. What's the name of your book again?
Ryan Foland: It's called "Ditch The Act."
Eric Sim: I'm going to buy one.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, check it out for sure.
So when I bring them back into the main room, I have all of the groups ahead of time for the rose and thorn experiment, they all share their roses and thorns, they choose a leader in the group, and then they have to, as a group, decide the best rose and the best thorn to then share with the group.
So then when we come back, it's like, "Okay, group number one, who's your representative? Oh, all right, what's your rose and thorn?"
And they'll explain the rose and thorn.
And the final thing, I make it a little more difficult, I say, "There's no repeats."
So if somebody says, "Oh, my favorite part about this is the color of it," and the next group is like, "Damn, that's what we said," they have to think on the spot and go to like level 2 from the group.
Eric Sim: That's pretty interesting. If it is not too big of a group.
Ryan Foland: Well, I think something like four is a magic number, otherwise it gets out of control.
Eric Sim: Yeah, four I think also on the Zoom screen looks quite nice, sometimes five, it looks a bit weird.
Ryan Foland: Do you ever do breakout rooms with just two people?
Eric Sim: So far I haven't, because I don't really teach too technical stuff these days, but if I do maybe — sometimes this is good for a role play.
Ryan Foland: Okay, yeah, yeah. Have you heard of a speaker, he's from Australia, his name is Vinh Giang?
He's a magician, he's got bleach-blond hair, he's kind of an eccentric showman.
I went to one of his workshops and he kept breaking us out into these one-on-one groups, like one-on-one breakouts, but he would have these activities and exercises with like a 3-minute breakout where each person has to do something and then you're back in the group and then you're back in the breakout.
And for me, as somebody who was attending it, it created that feeling like I met 5 or 6 people like I would have at a live event.
Eric Sim: Yeah. It's very important to have breakout rooms.
So far I'm experimenting so the 5 minutes 4 person for introduction is good.
Later on, when I'm teaching networking skills, selling skills, I will have one more where I get people to do role play.
Ryan Foland: Perfect.
Now, have you personally been attending digital events?
Are you attending conferences that are digital as an attendee to understand more of that experience?
Eric Sim: Before the circuit breaker I did one more thing.
So back in March I knew that I cannot travel anymore for quite a few months. I signed up for a positive psychology course, which is a graduate diploma that will last 6 months.
And I've got to take 5 modules, I'm on Zoom every week and sometimes 2 full days, Saturday and Sunday.
So I know having a Zoom call or Zoom teaching full day doesn't work.
You felt like you knew something but after one or 2 days you completely forgot what you have learned.
So that was fantastic for me, and so I'm stealing a lot of ideas from the various instructors.
Ryan Foland: And stealing in the best way possible, because when you steal in a way that builds upon, innovates, and leverages best practices, we're all really together trying to test out what works and what doesn't.
And I would have guessed that if you're somebody who really wants to share value, that you're also making sure you see the other side of the fence and experiencing Zoom fatigue for yourself so that you can really empathize.
Eric Sim: Do you know why my break is 10 minutes?
Ryan Foland: No.
Eric Sim: Because I experienced a 5 minutes break and it doesn't work.
That's why I am so insistent on a 10-minute break.
Ryan Foland: That's a great takeaway for people who are listening, because these days you can't just be a speaker, you have to consume digital content and listen to speakers.
I encourage speakers to attend workshops and see what other people are doing because on the stage you can have your own deal, your own uniqueness and when you're at an event inherently you sit in on different sessions and you see what people are doing, but it's easier in a digital world to just be like,
"Oh, I'm just going to present. I don't want to attend."
Eric Sim: Yeah, when I signed up for the 6 months course, which will finish this coming weekend, it helped me a lot conducting my lectures and my speech over Zoom.
So I know you need variety, that's why I have a guest speaker for 10 minutes to break the monotonous voice.
Ryan Foland: Right.
Eric Sim: Yeah, it's amazing.
Ryan Foland: I like this idea of audience-centric thinking, and I want to transition for a minute from the gadgeting, the technical of the delivery, to the business of speaking and how things have fundamentally changed.
One thing that you had mentioned prior to us hitting the live button was the difference in attracting an audience now versus pre-pandemic.
Tell me what the fundamental difference is as a speaker prior to March, and now?
What is happening?
How do you derive value to the organizers in this type of world?
Eric Sim: Yeah. Before the pandemic, where we could have big conferences when you're a keynote speaker, the organizer would attract the audience by using a fantastic 5-star hotel, good food lined up, maybe a few other speakers.
Or sometimes you are not a keynote, so the keynote speaker attracts the audience and you are one of the side speakers. But that no longer works, now the organizers are using the speakers to attract.
Ryan Foland: So the tides have turned, the teeter-totter has now changed.
Eric Sim: Yeah. So previously it was, you may not be a known speaker but you know that topic, you know that if you go there, there will be a few hundred people listening to you, whether they know you or not.
Ryan Foland: Right, they're there.
Eric Sim: They already paid a ticket, they listen to the keynote speaker at the beginning and then they listen to one ending speaker at the end, you are the one in between, no matter who you are, you get the audience.
But now, if you cannot attract the crowd, the organizers may not want you.
No matter how good you are with your topic.
Because of Zoom fatigue, the audience is very choosy.
They want to listen to somebody that they have heard before or they know from friends or from social media.
So now, for a speaker, more important than delivery is how well-known you are on social media, or how well-known is your work.
Ryan Foland: Okay, so I like to make up words and as I was listening to you I was thinking there's got to be a new word or a way to phrase this type of transition.
It's not a new word it's actually just changing one letter slightly in the word VALUE, because I keep coming back to value, for you.
So as a speaker, the VALUE that you have is the VALVE that you create.
So value is V-A-L-U-E but if you take the U and you just make it skinny into a V then you have VALVE, like an actual valve, on and off.
Eric Sim: Open and close.
Ryan Foland: Yeah. So your ability to deliver value as a speaker in this digital world is your ability to open up the valve and attract an audience to what you're doing.
Eric Sim: Fantastic, Ryan, I really like it, the valve.
So what I do for the organization, sometimes they ask how to justify hiring me.
I'll say, "I will do two posts for you. One post before the event and one post after the event."
Ryan Foland: You are opening up a valve with potentially 2 million people to spill out of it.
Eric Sim: So I say that whether these people can attend or pay, they will know about your organization, they will know about your event, and if there are a few other people in the organization that you want to be known on the market, I can help them.
I can do a short interview with the founder of your company or I can just say that, "Hey, I'm speaking at this CFA event," so my followers will see and they will attend, or they will buy the tickets.
Then after the event, I will say, "I just did this event, this is what I spoke about," and those people who attended they will comment, right, they'll say, "Hey, good speech, inspiring speech, I like this, I like that," and guess what— the people who comment, their connections get to see.
So there is a ripple effect even after the event, so the organizer makes their money’s worth, they also want that now.
Ryan Foland: It makes me think that in this pandemic I've been doing some more gardening, so I'm using a hose and watering my plants in my garden.
What I used to do was always go back to the faucet and turn off the valve, and then I'd empty the hose so that there's no pressure in the hose.
I don't know whether I've gotten lazy or smarter, but I now just leave the valve open so the control is at the sprayer.
So I never have to go to the valve to turn it on. There's always water that's available.
And so I can't help but think about your followers and your fans as this potential energy of water that just like builds up under pressure.
And if we're shutting off the valve at the valve, then there's just so much more work as opposed to opening up the valve and looking at your social media and your email lists and the daily conversations as like a hose that's always on so you can spray people with water if you need to, but like the best kind of water, maybe because it's hot and it's refreshing.
Eric Sim: That's a very good analogy because it's really me discussing with the organizer and also becoming very choosy with organizers.
I want organizers that can add value to my followers.
So I don't want to do it with organizers whose team is not in line with mine or ask me to speak on a topic that my followers are not interested in.
I stick very closely to my career team because my followers follow me because they want to do better in their careers, they want to know tips on how to do better in life, so that's what I want to do.
So there are people who asked me to talk about investment banking or derivatives, those I do less now. Because if I talk about that on social media, it's only a small group of people that will benefit.
Ryan Foland: Okay, I can't help but take this hose analogy, and the valve analogy, one step further, because I do admit, because I leave the valve on for the high pressure, but there's the hose head that has like the contraption.
And so you talked about these different themes or different brands.
So when you use the hose, you have the shower function, you have the jet function, you have the mist function, you have the spray, like there are all these varieties.
So you actually have control over the value that you deliver based on the valve that you open, based on the theme that the water actually comes out.
So your LinkedIn post might be more of a jet because like it's focused and it's there, and it's like, "I know people are listening."
Maybe on Twitter, it's more of a shower because you're like, "I'm just going to spray this all over Twitter and some people might get some of the water," right?
Eric Sim: Yes, so LinkedIn is my main one. Sometimes I, of course, do it on Instagram if the organizer is mainly on Instagram. For example, I did one for CFA in Bahrain, and in Bahrain, Instagram is the main social media platform. So yeah, I went there, I supported them but I didn't develop that bigger following on Instagram. So that is not the spray.
Ryan Foland: So Instagram is the mist.
Eric Sim: Yeah, maybe it's the mist.
Ryan Foland: And you know sometimes the water pressure is in there if you don't have the following you've got to figure out what to do to build it up.
Especially now, knowing that your value is the audience that you're able to bring, it really puts that much more importance on personal branding and putting yourself out there as somebody who they know.
"That guy's got a hose that's filled with pressure, he can turn it on or off, he can tweak it accordingly", like, "Let's let this guy come and water my audience."
Eric Sim: Yes, yes, because I also got a big following of Chinese followers, so that is a different valve, I can turn that on also.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, that's a whole different valve.
If I'm looking back on our conversation, I'm finding a lot of value.
I'm learning that your visual value, your audio value, your gadget value is directly proportional to the ability for you to not just communicate a message, but communicate a message while still bringing your own audience and creating a certain amount of pressure behind what you're doing.
So it's not as much as just showing up, it's about showing up with the party, right?
Eric Sim: Yeah. So when I teach at a university, I bring my own guest lecturer, I have a guest speaker, I bring my own teaching assistant, and I bring my own live production manager who will be there the whole time and make sure that my gadgets are functioning. If something goes wrong he will remind me, he will stand by.
And I’ve got my teaching assistant to monitor the chat and the questions and answers.
Sometimes in the last 10 minutes I have no more time to look at the chat, I'll just ask my teaching assistant, "Just give me the top 3 most frequently asked questions, just in the last one hour."
And he'll read out 3 questions and I'll answer that.
Because if you want to bring value don't let people wait online for you to read those questions.
And some questions, of course, may be too specific and it may not be appropriate to answer them then when you only have 10 minutes left.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, and again, time is value, and everybody is very cautious with their time, as you said, they're very picky with their time.
So in order to deliver that value, having a team and having more people than just you to support you on these talks makes a lot of sense.
Eric Sim: Yeah, definitely.
Ryan Foland: So there is a new profession. If you're hearing it out there right now there is an opportunity to be a learning assistant for speakers. There are opportunities for live production assistants for speakers.
I've even seen and been on workshops where there are dedicated assistants that are monitoring the chat like you said. So I think one way to grow your speaking business is to be involved in more presentations.
And so maybe if you're out there and you're not getting those keynotes and you're not getting those opportunities because they're just not there, maybe there's a chance to reach out to speakers who seem to have traction and see if they need help.
Now Eric, if I was an up and coming speaker— well, I think we're always up and coming, but if I reached out to you and said,
"Hey Eric, my name's XYZ, I love what you're doing, I am one of your 2 million fans, could I add value to you and your presentation? Could I sit in and listen to a few and then maybe I can help you run the breakout rooms or maybe I can help you with this?"
Would that come totally out of left field or do you think you'd be like, "Well, you're trying to add value for me?"
Eric Sim: I would very much welcome that because I can always use some help. I can get somebody to do my opening first 5 minutes, do the admin part, right,
"Hey, ask questions in the chat room, and then let me introduce Eric."
Can you imagine you coming on and introducing yourself to my students?
"Hey, I don't know Eric, but I've seen him on LinkedIn, and then here I am, he's giving me a chance today. I'm here to introduce him, and I'm very glad to have this opportunity."
How much atmosphere am I going to build for the speaker just by doing that?
Ryan Foland: And genuine excitement and inclusivity.
Eric Sim: Yeah, usually the speaker comes and he introduces himself and that's it.
Now you've got somebody from across the world, and now the good thing is you can be anywhere.
So I’ve got speakers, I’ve got my teaching assistant, I’ve got my live production manager. They're all from different places. My live production manager, he's also from California.
Ryan Foland: Right. So here's the deal — next time you give a big lecture and you need a guest speaker, let me know.
Maybe our worlds can collide in that way.
I'd love to speak in Singapore, even if it's a guest in your class, just to squirt some water around the world.
Eric Sim: Yeah, I would welcome you to my class, to listen, and then for my students to hear you, and maybe you can even talk about how to host a podcast.
Ryan Foland: Yeah. And I love this idea of a guest because why not like I really haven't thought about bringing in guest speakers to my presentations, but I think that's a fantastic idea to change it up, to add more value, to bring value to my speaker friends, maybe they'll want me to be guests on theirs.
I think we're seeing this evolution of the way that we're looking at the traditional keynote, and you're a great example of somebody on the front line who's doing it.
Eric Sim: Because if you do a proper keynote or just the one-hour speech, it would be weird to suddenly get somebody else on stage to speak and then to come down from the stage. But on Zoom people welcome that.
I mean, they listen to your voice, they see your face all the time for already like one hour or half an hour, they welcome a different voice, and the best part — you can pull in anyone from any part of the world, as long they have wi-fi.
Ryan Foland: Okay, so I'm going to go on another analogy or metaphor or makeup word binge here — you said keynote, right?
A traditional keynote. It's hard to do that.
And you're describing this new type of Zoom keynote so take the K off, get rid of the Y, and we are seeing this transition from a traditional keynote to an E-note.
"Hey, I know you want to hire me for a keynote, but I'll give you an E-note."
Eric Sim: Make it fun and share the stage.
Ryan Foland: Yeah, and the electronic part allows you to do that.
And if I'm talking about an example of banking, and then I said, "Oh, hold on a second. Hey, Eric from Singapore, I want to bring you in for a minute," and then you're speaking from a spot of authority, you're way cooler than a PowerPoint slide.
I'm just going to say people are cooler than PowerPoints.
Eric Sim: And it can be 5 minutes, it can be a panel, so I've done panels like 3, you shouldn't go more than 3. I asked them like 2 questions each, just 15 minutes that's very welcomed and appreciated by the participants.
So no matter how good you are, they still want to hear somebody else.
Ryan Foland: I love that. Well, I think that's actually a great note to end on because no matter who you are, no matter how good you are as a speaker, there's always value in incorporating more examples, more stories, more people, more change up, to fight that Zoom fatigue and truly create your own version of an E-note.
You've got a hose on the wall and think about your value, also including the valve that you can open up to bring value to the organizers.
We've changed, we're almost flipping roles, this is a speaker swap nonetheless.
Eric Sim: Yeah. So you'll have to attract the audience, participants, to come and listen to you, help the organizer because organizers are also having difficulty, they cannot charge as much and they may not have the marketing dollars.
So as a speaker we can help them by just being more round on, just by being more active on social media and being our own brand.
And we can also help each other, speakers and speakers, we can help each other on social media as well.
Ryan Foland: And I'm going to bring it back to value, because what you just said there completely ties in with the value characteristics that I was able to see through your story, and you're basically saying that organizers are looking to you as a speaker for value.
And the more value that you can provide for the organizers, the more you solve the problem that they have, and the more we're connecting with each other and supporting each other as speakers, the more volume and pressure we can have from shared audiences, shared experiences, and truly reinventing the way that people are consuming information these days.
So kudos to you, sir.
I'm excited that we got to chat here, and not only do you look good, you sound good, and more important than that, I found value from this conversation and it's obvious why organizers continue to spend their money to hire you to deliver value.
It's just an exchange of value at the end of the day.
Eric Sim: Thanks for having me and I'm glad that the audience out there, you are listening until the very last minute, and if you want to reach out to me, my name is Eric Sim, I'm on LinkedIn, feel free to follow me, send me a message and maybe I will also invite you to be a guest speaker for my guest lecture, or you can invite me to do for you as well.
Ryan Foland: Awesome. Well hey, you better guarantee that I'm going to get LinkedIn with you right now and you now have a ginger friend in Long Beach so you know. I look at life as a series of dots, and so let's just keep connecting the dots and keep doing what you're doing.
I think that we need more inspiring people who are willing to be vulnerable, share what's working, share what's not working, and you know what— if we both have a piece of technology and gadget that's still not connected, like that's okay, because we are the biggest piece of gadgets possible.
All right buddy, well hey, this was great, and if you don't know about SpeakerHub and you don't know about how you can host and showcase yourself as a speaker on this platform to get connected with other speakers, if you have an organization that you want to white label a whole speaker directory from, it sounds like you've been using SpeakerHub, has it been working for you, do you like it?
Eric Sim: Yeah, I got my Bahrain gig last November so I went there to speak. It was a keynote, 400 people down there, and it was the first time that I've been to Bahrain.
I got the best chicken biryani, and I met the friendliest group of people and we remained friends.
Ryan Foland: So there you go, you get your profile up on SpeakerHub and it could land you a gig where you have the best food of your life.
I mean, if that's not value I don't know what is.
Eric Sim: All right Ryan, thank you for having me.
Ryan Foland: That was a pleasure, my pleasure.
A bit about World of Speakers
World of Speakers is a bi-weekly podcast that helps people find their own voices, and teaches them how to use their voice to develop a speaking business.
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