World of Speakers E.12: Karen Millsap | Finding your authentic voice

I want you to dive in, I want you to get a pen, paper, or maybe even just pull out your phone, take some notes, you're definitely not going to want to miss this.

Ryan Foland: Welcome back everyone to another episode of World of Speakers.

Today we have Karen Millsap, that's with two L's, not one, and she is coming to us to talk about how she has gotten to where she is, the speaking advice that she can give, and then how she sees it best to monetize your message.

Karen, welcome to the World of Speakers!

KM: Thanks for having me! Tanks for pointing that out, two L's.

RF: It's important, because you, as well as I, have these name games what we all play right, you listen for someone and I say, "Hey my name is Ryan," and they go, "Nice to meet you, Brian". "No, no, Ryan with an R," and they go, "Oh Brian?" "No!"

I'd like to respond anything that sounds close or even not, but yeah, Millsap with two L's, that's helpful.

Where in the world are you calling from today?

KM: Orlando, Florida, sunny Florida.

RF: Sunny and sort of windy and stormy too, right?

KM: It has been, a little bit yeah, coming off of Irma, I feel like we are getting— we usually get a lot of rain during the summertime, but I feel like it's a dragging out a little bit.

I thought the hurricane season was over, but no, it's still cooler as we like to say now that we're in into October.

RF: It's almost like having an audience that you expect and showing up and it being different, but you as a person have to continue to deliver the same thing regardless of the weather, regardless of the audience, regardless of the conditions.

KM: Yeah, you just have to keep it rolling.

RF: For those people who don't know you, including myself, what is it that you talk about when you meet people and they ask you, "What do you do?"

What does that conversation look like?

Who are you?

What do you do Karen?

KM: I am known by many as The Grief Consultant, and that phrase was kind of coined because I entered this world of grief suddenly.

I became a widow about four years ago, but I knew I didn't want to be a grief counselor.

I really wanted to talk about grief in the workplace. It's awkward, it's weird, it's something that we try to not address, yet it's universal, and its inevitable.

I coined this phrase The Grief Consultant, and it just stuck with me, everybody will call me when they've experienced a change or a loss, and they just need help kind of navigating and looking forward in what can they do.

After I lost my husband, I knew I had two choices, it was very tough, I have a little one. I looked at him and I just thought, "Okay, I have two choices here, I can either give up or I can get up."

I just started forging forward and figuring out this life, and how to heal and heal in a proper way. As I started to do that, I just was sharing my story because I recognized the power of story.

Honestly, I hate my story, I don't like this story.

I wish that I were something more fun and pleasant, but it is something that's relatable, because everybody's been through something.

I've had to really humble myself and get out of my own way, and just know that me telling the story is also honoring my husband's life, and it is helping people to heal.

That's me and what I'm doing.

RF: Wow, one thing that you said that stuck out was “Getting out of your own way.”

I think that a lot of us struggle with that, because when it comes to grief, it is a pretty taboo topic, and I think at least for me personally, it's because it taps into these emotions that I try to push down and try to hide, and it is inevitable.

It's kind of one of those things that it's almost like an earthquake, right?

Nobody wants to talk about it, but when it's here it's all of a sudden top of mind and then you're even confused as to what to do with it.

Honestly, when you said you'd lost your husband, I was thinking to myself "Oh, I'm so sorry," but then I'm thinking, "Is that the right word to say? No, I'm just going to be quiet."

KM: It's all awkward.

It's awkward if you're the person going through it, it's awkward if you're supporting somebody.

I saw this phenomenal interview that Anderson Cooper did, he was actually being interviewed and he was talking about his brother years ago committed suicide.

He said exactly, "How I felt is that grief is awkward in this society," but really, the more we talk about it than the more we can help each other get through it.

That's where I am, that's kind of where the sandbox I want to play is. I want to have these conversations, these uncomfortable conversations.

It helps you when you're healing, but you certainly will cross paths with somebody or find yourself in a position where someone else needs that support or that hope or that strength, and because we've all been through it, we need to help each other get through it.

RF: For me personally, there's been a few deaths of some close family friends and going to their memorial with my parents has been kind of the next level, where it's like, there's just this kind of awkwardness, you don't know how to really talk about it, and therefore we sort of don't.

What you just said about, "The more we talk about it, the more we can deal with it," do you think that that is sort of a universal truth when it comes to issues, everything from politics to personal lives, to relationships, to works?

KM: Yeah, absolutely.

The reason I feel that way is because as it pertains to grief, when we suppress it, eventually it will manifest itself in unhealthy ways, whether it's irrational behavior or alcohol abuse, or substance abuse, or excessive shopping— it could be anything.

It just starts to manifest itself because these are natural emotions, although they are toxic, they are natural emotions and the more you suppress it you're prolonging that healing process.

You do have to talk about it, and I tell people even the crying process which is awkward, and you're like, "I don't really know if I should shed tears now," those are healing waters.

I saw that on a movie it said, "Let the healing waters flow," and it's so, so true.

Not just grief, I think that all of this, especially with the climate of our world right now, there's a lot of tension.

I feel like everybody is just on pins and needles, and looking for a reason to lash out, or maybe they've been suppressing so much.

Again, it's just bottled up and so they do snap or they are more irritated or what have you.

If we would just step back and address it, as it's coming, then I think what happens is we're allowing ourselves to create this space where we can really work through it.

We're not responding to it or reacting to it, we're actually working through the process.

You can't just get on the other side of grief, I think of it like a storm, we were talking about Florida storms— you can't go around it, you have to go through it.

It's the same thing with grief and awkward emotions, difficulties, tough times, ups and downs, you're just going to have to go through it, so you have to talk about it.

RF: Wow. I'm a sailor, I love to sail, and for me, the analogy and the reality of sailing is very parallel to life. You can't choose the weather, you can't choose the direction of the wind, but you do have the choice of moving your sails and reacting to the outside forces.

And these two choices, you either deal with it or you don't, and if you don't deal with it then your mast breaks, your sale blows out or you might capsize or go down.

KM: I love that you say that, because we can definitely connect there.

I have a talk that's called "How to Adjust Your Sales," and it's about navigating life when a hardship occurs.

What do you do?

This is the thing, I'm a solutions based person, I always have been, so when this occurred in my life, I was like, "Okay, what do I do?"

I was down for a while, don't get me wrong.

I definitely was like eating Ben and Jerry's, and not showering for days, but there came a point like I said, where I realized, "I have two choices here."

And so when I knew, "Okay, I have to get up and I have to put one foot in front of the other," I became so driven by solutions.

By the grace of God, I was really put in line with some resources that helped me to realize that we do have solutions out here, but again, this is why we need to talk about it.

We need to share these resources and some of them are, "How do you navigate hardship by focusing on your total well-being."

Like you said, we can't change or predict the weather or what has happened or anything, but we can choose how we're going to respond to it.

And one of the ways to respond as you are trying to manage some sort of turmoil, is by focusing on that self-care.

There are foods that we can eat that help to combat depression and anxiety and stress. I mean there are great resources that will help you pick out what food, or exercise.

RF: Is it Ben and Jerry's? Is that it?

KM: It's not!

It's food. It's your physical well-being. It's your mental well-being. It’s what are you reading, what motivational videos are you listening to.

It's also your emotional well-being, like I said, “Let yourself cry, let yourself talk about and give life to some of these emotions that are really complex.” We are complex beings, we're human.

And even your spiritual well-being, that's not always tied to a faith.

Now, I'm a Christian, so my spiritual well-being was tied to my relationship and my faith with God, but that's not for everybody!

Spiritual well-being can be just how are you centering yourself.

Are you doing meditation practices, are you're giving yourself that quiet time and getting all these distractions out of the way? That's part of taking care of your spiritual well-being.

There are all these different solutions out there that we can apply to help us get through these hard times, but a lot of people don't know it and maybe aren't looking for it because they're so consumed with the weight of their emotional distress.

There are definitely solutions out there, I highly suggest people start to tap into that.

The biggest thing that I think will shift all of this, is we have to release the shame that's tied to this.

I realize I'm not the only widow, I'm not the first and I'm not the last, and as a matter of fact, after my husband died, right after, my sister was going through a divorce.

One of the biggest myths about grief is that it's only tie to a death, but it's not, it can be job loss or divorce, or financial loss, job change, changes within organizations; or your kids are moving out, empty nest syndrome is real.

There's so many different things that can bring grief.

RF: Or your startup stops starting and fails miserably.

KM: Exactly, exactly.

Again, conversation is what's going to give this life and help to just stimulate that knowledge and help people to navigate it successfully.

RF: Your words are definitely stimulating, and the tone, your passion for it obviously comes out.

It's almost like a dichotomy of the subject, because you'd think, "Mourning, loss," someone from the Adams Family is sort of talking, and it's, "Sit on my couch and talk to me about your childhood."

You're like, "No, this is great, you got two choices, you are going to trim your sales, you're going to—"

It's interesting, I mean, think about it, I don't think of a grief counselor somebody who has this much pep in their step, but I think that's cool.

KM: I have to be true to myself, though.

RF: Yes, you have to. Speaking of pep in your step: the situation has happened to you, the weather has hit you, you've adjusted your sales.

I want to know just for a second, were you historically comfortable in front of people, speaking, were you ASB president, were you're part of the speech and debate club?

Was speaking part of your past, or did you just like all of a sudden learn how to sail because of this?

KM: Yes and no, I think that it was always an innate ability.

I remember my parents told me when I was younger, "When you were about five years old, your teacher said you're going to be a leader, because you don't like to stop talking, or you can't stop talking," I was like "What?"

There is this great Steve Jobs quote and it says, "You can see where you're going, but only when you turn around to connect the dots."

Right? I realize that all of my jobs always involve some sort of training aspect, and that's the part that I loved.

I will say that when I stepped down on my own and became an entrepreneur, a small business owner, that it really helped to unleash talents and abilities that I didn't know that I had.

When you go through a sudden change like this, a lost, then your confidence is rocked.

I really don't understand the science behind that. I know there's an immediate chemical deficiency that happens when you experience the loss of a loved one.

I'm not really sure how that's tied to your confidence, but it is so real, because I definitely thought that I was a confident person before my husband died, and after he died I was unsure of my abilities.

As I was building up this business and my speaking platform and career, it was almost like it just tore back all of these, all this bondage is kind of how it felt like, all this bondage was just broken.

I really honestly feel like I have evolved and continuing to evolve with more clarity into the best version of myself. I'm sure it was in there, but it's now coming out.

RF: I think that's inspiring for a lot of people who might not have a past or a history of "public speaking", I didn't take speech and debate like I'm behind the ball.

You are a living testament to the fact that, when you look back you have a lot of experience to draw upon and being true to yourself.

You're taking your sales in a position that you have two choices— you either do not get off the boat, don't leave the dock, or you go out of it, and sometimes trial by fire is the best way.

I would imagine if you were classically trained and maybe when your mom got the message about you talking too much in class, she puts you in speech debate and trained you like a father would a son who wants them to be quarterback, that could work against you.

I think that you're talking about at the end of the day relating to people and I always challenge people, I say, "Are you a public speaker?" and most of them say, "Well, no," and I say, "Well you just spoke in public, so I'm sorry, but you are."

This idea that thoughts become words and words become things, so if you think the thoughts you want, you can set yourself up for opportunity versus, "Oh no, no, no, no I would never, I get so nervous."

We all get nervous.

KM: I would say that the audience is really there to support you.

Yeah, they want to learn from you and they want to get something from you, but we are connected by our human spirits, and so they're cheering you all along the way!

I think really where it starts is you have to have the courage to be yourself.

Everybody has something that they can offer this world, and when you identify what your passion is and what really just brings joy the more that you tap into that and have the courage to be yourself in that space.

You're going to find your tribe, you're going to find other people that want to learn that about you or from you, or just hear your position on this.

You definitely have to embrace that and not feel like there are certain steps you have to take to get there; no, just open your mouth, start talking, start talking to the people in the grocery store. Just start getting comfortable.

RF: You're literally creating your own wind for your own sale, and you have all these people that are in inner tubes and different floaties, and maybe a unicorn floatie, and a swan floatie, and you cruise along, and you're like, "Hey this is where I'm going," you're talking, creating your own wind and momentum, and people are going to want to jump on your boat.

KM: Yes, exactly, exactly.

RF: You did a great job at doing my job of transitioning to this second part where we talk about your tips.

The tip number one is— you've got to be yourself and you've got to chart your own course, allowing and understanding that people will see that movement and jump onto your boat, or train, or car, or scooter, or skateboard, whatever it is that you ride.

KM: Absolutely, absolutely.

Kind of going back to my earlier points, I had to get out of my own way, there was a lot of obviously difficult emotions that surrounded my husband's sudden death.

I had a little one, and he had a business, and I was 29, this was when life was starting, so all of this was completely unexpected when it happened.

What I recognized, and not through my own eyes, I didn't come up with this on myself, but I had a life coach who told me, she said, "Listen, you have to be authentic, you have to talk about the good and the bad, because people aren't going to be able to connect with you if you're so strong all the time."

I was like, "Oh my gosh, I do have to talk about the yucky stuff that I don't want to talk about, I have to give life to that, I have to talk about the real part of it."

And that was where I had to find the courage to be myself.

To get out of my own way and realize that this will help other people.

People hear my story and they're like, "Oh my goodness, this is absolutely insane, this is so tragic, how are you even going on?"

But I hear other people's story and I feel the exact same way, like, "Oh my gosh, I couldn't have imagined that happening."

All that to say is that a lot of times we have these voices in our head that will tell us like, "No, don't say that," or, "Don't go there". "Maybe you shouldn't."

I would say ignore those, be your authentic self and see those results start to change and start to come forth.

RF: Going back to the sailing analogy, I can't help but keep to going back to this; I've been on some very large, very nice boats that you could have a white glove on a dirty day and pick up no dirt whatsoever.

Then you've got other boats that are scrappy and dirty holes with patches and they're both authentic in their own way, but if you ever step foot on a 60 foot plus crazy beautiful boat, you were on pins and needles, and it's hard to get super comfortable because it's so well maintained, it's so strong, it's just like, you detach from it.

When you're on somebody's boat that's a little rough around the edges, it's already got some dirt, they're like, "Oh who cares, keep your shoes on, make yourself at home." They're like "Oh you dropped— that's okay, that's going to be fine, don't worry."

It's more comfortable to be on—

KM: That is such a great analogy.

RF: Or even in somebody's house, if you've ever gone to somebody house and they are like, "Stop, take off your shoes," it's a white carpet, and a white poodle comes in to pet, and it's very, very uncomfortable, it's hard.

Versus, "Hey take your shoes off, come on inside, excuse my mess, but this is how I live,"

I feel more comfortable.

KM: Exactly, I love that, because I always say that I hope that I'm the kind of friend where you can come in my house and just open up the refrigerator.

RF: Yes, yes.

KM: There is no awkwardness, I just want you to be able to come and take your shoes off, lay on the couch, that's the atmosphere I want to create.

It's not just the atmosphere where I live, that's how I want people to feel when we are connecting, that's kind of vibration that I want to give off.

RF: So, #refrigerator theory— The Grief Consultant Refrigerator Theory.

If that is your content, want to talk about, if you would feel awkward about someone coming and opening it up your fridge to see all the content that you have: the bad speeches, the good speeches, the places where you messed up in front of a much of middle schoolers because you forgot that they don't really react to people like normal people.

If you feel like someone can get on your boat and open up your ice chest, or getting in your house and open up a refrigerator, first thing— that's when you know you're in the sweet spot, I like that.

KM: Yes exactly, exactly.

RF: Alright, so be yourself, be authentic, be comfortable with other people opening up your refrigerators, and don't worry about your boat being completely polished all the time.

What else have you got for us?

KM: I think as it pertains to speaking, the biggest lesson that I learned— some people speak and they're not looking to monetize it.

For me, I do want to monetize it, and so I realized, and this goes back to my old recruiting days, that it's a numbers game, it really is a numbers game.

It's not just about who you know, but it's how much you are putting yourself out there.

I would just try to speak at everything, I virtually did not care what it was, and i didn't care if it was paid or not, it's the experience.

I would encourage anybody who wants to be a speaker to recognize that it is a numbers game.

It's a numbers game because first of all you're building up your reputation, but you're also getting more practice.

People do ask me, "Oh did you go to Toastmasters or have you done this?" No, I haven't done any formal training. I just won't stop talking!

RF: Won't stop, can't stop, won't stop, can't stop— I bet you'd make a good rapper by the way, have you ever tried your hand in rapping?

KM: Okay, this is really funny.

If you catch me driving and you see my mouth moving, I'm doing one of two things— I'm either talking to God or I'm rapping.

It's two complete separate sides of the spectrum.

And I may not be rapping what's on the radio, I may just have something in my head that I want to get out.

Now everybody knows my secret.

RF: I thought that was you on the freeway the other day— no, never mind, you're in a different state.

There are other people like you out there.

Actually it's funny, when I'm on a sailboat and I'm single handed, and I'm out there by myself in the ocean, I'll actually turn on Pandora or Spotify to a beatbox channel and I'll just sort of like flow and rap and just kind of freestyle with my own thing, because I'm in the middle of the ocean, no one can hear me, it's pretty fun. My boat is my stage.

I think this idea of never saying "No" to a speaking opportunity is huge.

I do a stick figure drawings every day and I actually have little stickers that I made of them, and one is on my laptop; there's two of them, one says, "Never say no to a speaking opportunity." And on the other side it says, "Forgive your slip-ups."

For me, I do daily reminders of those, because it is a numbers game and it's also a numbers game of failure.

The more times you speak the more times you're going to mess up, it's the flip side of it.

If you understand that those are really growing opportunities, then keep slipping on the banana, right?

KM: There's another piece of that too, obviously that piece of advice is really good, as you're talking about building up your speaking career.

But here's a thing— why are you a speaker?

You're a speaker because you have a message that you want to take to the world, and there may be people who need to hear that message that are not in an audience that's able to pay for it.

You have to think about, "Why am I doing this," and that really is something that convicts my heart every time somebody asks me to come and speak.

There are other ways that you can make it worth your while, for example, if there's a small local group that asks me to come and speak, and they're looking for motivation, I'm like, "Sure, absolutely, can you have somebody there to take pictures for me?"

That's enough for me, I'm happy to have those pictures out.

Or "Do you mind if I videotape it?" You can just set up your own little camcorder in the back, and that's good practice for you, education for you.

You never know, the reason you are a speaker is because you have a message that you want to take to the world and you never know who needs to hear that message.

Don't hold that back, say "Yes," because you could be changing lives in areas or quarters of the world you had no idea would need to hear that message.

RF: I think that for those type of speakers who have the opposite mentality, it works against them, because I found some of the most fulfilling talks to audiences that don't have the ability to pay for it.

I just spoke at the Los Angeles library to a bunch of entrepreneurs, there was a group that's a non profit, and these are entrepreneurs not like, "Hey, I'm in college and I'm making an app, and I'm financing this by— whatever."

These are people that are they're making a living because of their business and it's still difficult, these are the core entrepreneurs.

Just to meet them and share everything that I had, it's different than making money. I've already gotten emails back and that will lead to more opportunities, and I think it is exciting.

John Bates who I've had on the show as well, it affected me when I said, "How do you go about making money?" And he said, "Ryan, before I even talk about that, I always donate a certain amount of my time, no matter what," and it's such a great reminder.

I saw this quote the other day and I'm curious of your thought, it was, "Focus on the outcome, not the income."

What is the outcome that you want? Why are you a speaker? Is it to impact people, is it to do this, and if you focus on that, the income eventually comes in, at least that's what I'm learning from hearing about the same situation across so many speakers from around the world.

KM: I think that's probably an innate trait that we all share. Again, that's why we want to speak, because we want to make an impact on this world.

You can get kind of lost in, "Well I need to make money, I need this, I need that," and that's fine, but then what I've found are a lot of successful speakers, they're not just speaking, they do have a company, or they do have a business, or they have a job, they don't have to have their own thing maybe they're working.

The point is is because the fulfillment is by the lives that they touch, not necessarily by the money. Money is a tool, it's not the goal, it's just a tool to help you do more.

Again, if you're stimulated by the right objectives and that is to actually change hearts, open minds, inspire lives, then you are going to be blessed beyond measure.

RF: I think that is super inspiring. One of my favorite overarching concepts is that successful people don't do what everyone else cannot do, successful people do what everyone can do, but not everybody does.

And the low hanging fruit of just basic stuff that everyone has access to is there, it's just for the taking, and so I think so many people look for those shortcuts.

Okay, so my final question on this mid section about your speaking tips, I want to dive into how important it is for you to have this niche market.

I don't know anyone else who talks about grief as their main topic, and I think from what I have heard and my conversations with upcoming speakers, that's a big struggle point, like, "Do I focus on one thing, or do I have three topics," it's super stressful, you are a great example of somebody who has really made the niche element work.

How can you speak to that from a tactical perspective of people who are either now speaking or want to do it?

KM: Well, this is what I realized. I wanted to talk about grief to make it less awkward.

I specifically I wanted to talk about it in the workplace, I knew that I would always know be connected to help grievers. I really wanted to make a change about how grief is seen and handled in the workplace.

What I found, was that employers don't want to talk about it. I had to do a little bit of soul searching, and so it wasn't just about an isolated grief incident, it was about the kind of culture that we're creating.

What I found is really important to me, is that we are creating safe and caring workplaces that we are tapping into these natural human behaviors of compassion and empathy.

Now, what I did was instead of leading with grief, I now lead with talking about compassion and empathy. I always talk about grief, because once you get in the door then you can give them everything, you tell them what they want.

Then you give them what they need, and so I've always stayed true to it.

What's interesting was, I just had to look at really what is my bigger purpose.

My bigger purpose is there's nothing I can do to cure a grief in the world, I can't stop it from happening, I can't make everybody have the kind of perspective that I have.

I can talk about these two human behaviors compassion and empathy that will naturally help to ease this shame or judgment that's tied to grief, it just goes hand in hand.

What happens is, when people practice compassion and empathy on a daily basis, and when they start to build skill there, that is mastery preparation for the time of crisis, for tragedy.

Then, because you're already operating from this space, from this natural head space through compassion and empathy, then when something does happen, you already have the tools and you're already equipped to show up and be everything you need to be.

I do talk about grief, but I did have to just clarify, I did have to broaden out a little more, because that was the way for me to lead with a more positive and palatable honestly, topic.

Now, what's interesting is I recently spoke at Inbound, which is a HubSpot conference put on in Boston, Massachusetts.

RF: Congratulations, that's big time, that's a big sailboat race right there.

KM: Yes, and it was an amazing experience.

When I applied, first of all, I forgot that I applied and I didn't even know what it was when I applied.

When I received the acceptance, at the time I was actually getting ready for my Ted talk, so I didn't even look back at the email for about four weeks, but then I looked and I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is really big!"

I saw that like Brené Brown was going to be there, Adam Grant, Michelle Obama, I was like, "Wait a minute, why do they want me to talk about grief?"

It was because I had submitted a griefed application it was actually called "Now what— what do you do when tragedy hits your community or organization?” And so I was like, "Why do they want me to talk about this?"

Anyway, I get there, and what's so interesting is that Brené Brown was talking about empathy, Adam was talking about empathy, Michelle Obama was talking about empathy and what I recognized was that our world is in need of the human spirit, just being revitalized.

We need to flourish, and so it does pertain to grief, but the bigger problem, the bigger picture again is how are we connecting with one another and there is this phenomenal quote that Brené Brown said, she said, "What side of humanity are you on?"

Although I feel like I can stay true to my grief talk, and I will always talk about how do we help each other, I am realizing that I am needing to adjust to our world today that it is much bigger than just talking about grief, it really is focusing on how can we help one another, support one another on a day to day basis.

RF: And I think that is going to be super refreshing to everyone who is on pins and needles to the answer that question, because nobody wants to niche down, niche down, okay here's a real question is it niche or niche, potatoes or potatoes?

KM: I say niche. I like it though. I also say “literally”, because I want to be from London.

RF: I try to not say literally, that's one of my go to words, "so" and "literally" and "now" those are my three I am trying to get rid of but. Maybe if I say "literally" it'll spice it up a little bit.

I think people are decided to hear that there is an importance of having that niche, but at the same time, you really have to be cognizant of your audience and the outcomes that the people who are paying you want.

I know you through the quote, something like, "Give them what they think they want, and then deliver what you know they need."

KM: Yes.

RF: And that's good, and this is even helpful for me.

When I first started really trying to get out there, I was speaking about startups and entrepreneurship and communication and pitching, and business hacks, and I really wasn't getting the traction.

As soon as I started speaking about speaking, then the applications for communication are still core to everything I do, and now once I'm in, I can make little tangents and branches and touch different stuff, but it's all under that umbrella.

Very cool.

KM: Exactly. I would say this even if somebody said they wanted to talk about being a single parent or whatever, raising a kid on a farm, you're going to be like, "Oh my God, that's really, really super narrow, what do I do."

There is some other things in there, that's a great word, you could talk about resiliency you can use all these single words and themes that help to still capture, you're still staying true to yourself, but you just have to kind of see the bigger picture, because then you can reach more people.

When you stay true to that authentic voice, that story that you had, that experience that you have, that's what makes you— you, and that's what makes people desire the experience that you're giving them.

Some of those other buzz words in those themes are still helping you to capture people who may not identify specifically with the sandbox that you are playing in.

Not everybody that I talked to is a widow, but they can relate if they've gone through some sort of tragedy or they can relate if they've seen somebody go through a tragedy or hardship. Just be open minded.

Another great quote that I heard one time is that pertains to be being an entrepreneur, but certainly it pertains to somebody as a speaker is, "You have to be firm in your goal, but flexible on your journey."

As long as you know where you're going, you can be flexible in how you get there, because you're still going to be able to present your authentic self.

RF: I dig it, like dig it with with a jackhammer, just getting down in there, this is great. I go from boat to street construction, this is awesome.

In this last kind of section, the third section we want to get as much valuable information that you've learned about how to monetize your message.

We sort of touched on this, say yes to opportunities, don't be afraid to speak for free, even payment sometimes would be people taking pictures or you videotaping it.

If you were to have like the brass tax top three tips that you've learned or flip side mistakes that you've made, when it comes to really, like because people talk about speaking and making money, but not everyone does.

How can we help our listeners to monetize their message, knowing that they're authentic and all these other things it's coming from a pure spot?

KM: There's a switch that had to happen with me internally, and I'd love to share this tidbit, I was great at connecting, but I'm horible at sales. I'm like, "I just want to give it to you, I just want to help you out."

I recognize I have a little boy to feed, so I have to monetize it at some point, so it was almost like I had to ease into it.

You could think about it this way, if you have to travel to a speaking gig, and you have to pay for parking, then ask them to cover that, maybe it's, "Hey, can you pay $75?"

Even if it's just starting to have that conversation, starting to practice it, then that can ease you into it, and that's for the people who may be uncomfortable who are asking.

Now, I know there are others who are like, "I don't care, I'm asking for $20,000" but most of us, most of us, money is just kind of awkward, like in having having that conversation— did you hear that?[cell phone ringing]

RF: I did, it sounds like that was somebody calling you to book you for a speech.

KM: As I'm talking about money, see how you put it in the universe and it just comes to you.

RF: Absolutely, just go ahead and answer just say, "I'm sorry, I'm on a podcast about speaking but I need $20,000 dollars to show up," and then hang up.

KM: Exactly, exactly.

That is how you put it in the universe, you have to just start asking for those little things and think about your time, you should be paid for your time.

Here's a tip that I actually learned about moving from the awkwardness to, "I really want to position myself as a paid speaker."

There are all these online submissions that you can submit your application whatever they call them papers or your proposal, so you could submit that; but if you contact the person or email address that's listed, send them a direct message and say, "Hey, I see you have an online application, but I'm interested what is your selection for keynote speakers?"

What I found is you are not always getting paid when you do a breakout session, but they always pay for the keynote speakers.

Now if you don't get it right away, at least you've made a connection and another tidbit in there is, if you haven't already created one, create a digital media kit, you can go onto Canva and you just put your face on there, a couple of the badges or logos of places where you've spoken before, a blurb about who you are, some of your key topics, so basically you just create this pretty document in Canva, upload it—

RF: Would you call it, is it the same as a speaker one-pager?

KM: It's more than a speaker one-pager, but yes I call it digital media kit.

RF: The reason I asked that is sometimes people talk about their EPK or their Electronic Press Kit, which is a downloadable zip file which has all of your approved head shots, and your bios, and your summaries and all that stuff, but you're saying this is more of like a speaker resume, I'm just trying to so everybody understands.

KM: Exactly, and having a press kit is great and that's what people have to pull stuff from it, but when you're marketing yourself for these opportunities and you are not going to say, "Here's a zip file, download it and check it out," right?

When you create it in Canva, you'll download it either as a pdf or jpeg, and then you upload it to issuu.com, it creates this beautiful flip book it's an ebook and it's free, so you upload it to issuu, so when you're sending the email to this person you can say, "Hey, I'm wondering what your selection process is like for your keynote speakers, here is my digital media kit for you to take a look."

They can click right there, they're taken to this webpage and they can flip through your book and see some of your badges really quick.

Hopefully you have a website, if not that's ok, but work on it; but you condense your website and all of your accolades and maybe even a couple of testimonials, and I will make sure that I send this to you and if you have show notes, you can put it there as an example, use my stuff, I don't care, that's fine everybody can use that as a template if you want to.

RF: Everybody who listens do a little happy dance, they are like, "Yeeey!"

KM: Please, feel free to use that as a template, when you get into Canva, you can get down a rabbit hole, so make it yours.

When you send them that, then they have a quick look at you, and even if they're not booking for a keynote right away.

Then you have a direct contact with somebody who you can then put that on your speaker Excel sheet, you have it on your calendar, when you should follow up.

They'll tell you when the next round is if they've already selected their keynotes when they open it up for consideration, but that's how you get connected to those paid opportunities.

That was a huge shift for me, I'm not just going to apply online and be one of a hundred or a hundred thousand different people.

I want those opportunities where they're paid but there are also going to be connections that you can cultivate with these direct people instead of the online application.

RF: Alright, so we're going back to the sailing analogy here, and I'm digging this one, because a primary way of getting towards the wind, which is blowing in your face is to tack back and forth.

You actually have to go to the left, flip around go to the right, and you are making small incremental progress, but you're not going to become a keynote the first time you submit your application in the midst of hundreds of people, right?

KM: No, exactly.

RF: You go as close as you can towards the direction, and when you fall off just enough to get so that you have the maximum speed with the maximum angle.

That's where you contact and you have this Issuu Book and then you tack over, because you're getting too far off track and he you come back towards your layline and then you add it to your speakers sell spreadsheet.

Then you tack back and you like their tweets for another six months on Twitter, then you tack back and you actually attend the conference that you didn't get into, and you meet the person in person.

Then you tack back and this whole time you're taking other speaking gigs and it's all building up, getting closer to whatever rock you're trying to get on.

KM: Exactly, exactly.

Another tip just to throw in there is even if you don't get to speak at this opportunity, go on to their conference site and look at all the speakers who are on there and connect with them.

Connect with those speakers because obviously, they've been selected so they were probably speaking somewhere else and then the more you connect with other speakers, listen we have to take care of each other, this is a tribe this is like a secret society kind of thing.

RF: Hashtag #SecretSocietySpeakersAssociation.

KM: Yes, I love it.

The more that you connect with those speakers who have already been booked, then you are broadening your network and speakers think of speakers, I'll go to a place, they will say, "Hey do you know anybody?" "Yes, I do actually."

We have to connect not just through Linkedin, not just through going out here to these different associations, but be proactive and look at those people who are already booked at the conferences that you want to speak at.

RF: Bam. What is your preferred method of social media? Just curious.

KM: I love Instagram. I really, really do. I like Facebook, it's good for articles and I do a lot of articles as it pertains to grief, and hard times, and solutions and coaching and stuff like that.

I just love Instagram because I'm a visual person, even when people talk to me I'm like drawing a picture of their words in my head, so I love Instagram.

RF: Very cool, and don't feel bad about Facebook, I personally hate Facebook, Twitter is my passion because it's all about condensing what you're supposed to say.

Although this new 280 thing like I'm going to be of the thought that I'm still going to pretend like I only have 140, but that's ok.

KM: That's okay, whatever works for you.

RF: You can have a long leash, you don't have to run as far as everyone else, you can be comfortable in your little comfort zone of saying less which could be more.

KM: That's true, well I may have to ask you how I can get better with Twitter because my problem is it only has a lifetime of maybe what ten seconds, wasn't that the new thing?

RF: 18 minutes is like its longest moment, but I'd be happy to help you out, and I've actually invented a process and a concept I call a tweetnado, #tweetnado and when I go to conferences where I speak, I'm very, very active on Twitter and Twitter is very much a live platform.

For example, when I was in China at the RISE conference there was over 16 thousand people there, there was over six thousand people that were tweeting, hundreds, just tons of activity and I out tweeted everyone.

On all the statistics, it's like here's this guy, this ginger from the middle of nowhere in China and I got— I don't know millions of millions oppressions within that three or four day period, but it's very strategic, so I'd be happy to help share that.

KM: You need to do a show on that!

RF: We should, yeah, I think Forbes in Asia is working on an article on the tweetnado, but in social media marketing world, I got recognized last year as the top speaker of the entire event, but I didn't even speak.

KM: Oh my Gosh, that's hilarious, that's so great!

RF: Yeah, I out-tweeted and had so much of a presence on Twitter that people just assumed I was a speaker because I was mentioned so much, and I was just really taking— here's the trick, and this is the overarching guide of the tweetnado.

At conferences people have their computers and their ipads and they are taking notes frivolously, and I did that one time and I didn't find my notes until a month before the conference next year, that didn't do anything for me.

If you take notes at a conference on twitter, not like, "Hey I'm here in front of the booth," or, "Hey look at me, I'm doing something and adding no value."

If you're actually engaged and pulling as much of the amazing information from the speakers as possible, and delivering that to everyone, it's a fantastic value proposition.

My notes are public, then I take all my notes and i storify them, and I also use the "If then then that" do you know about If then than that app?

KM: Yes.

RF: I use a certain hashtag of the conference and then If then then that puts all of my tweets into a spreadsheet automatically.

I have this like reference of amazing notes and I can go back and whichever ones have the most likes and retweets I know that content is valuable to my followers, than I can create content based on that and it goes around, around, around and around.

KM: It's so good! I love that! Okay there's going to be a whole episode dedicated to tweetnado, for sure.

RF: Yes. Hey well, I can't believe this has already been 45-plus minutes, but I really feel like having no idea who you were beforehand.

I want people to know that we have a whole team that vets speakers before they come on, but I'm the kind of host, I like to meet people like in real life, I don't do the cyberstalking beforehand, and so I really feel like I got to know you.

Your speaking tips are so core to just being real, that I love that, because everyone can do that.

And then, your advice of this issuu.com, I'm going to go do that, and then having your speaker excel spreadsheet and this really making money by looking at it as a long trip and sailing, it can take a long time, it's not like you're on a power boat, you don't have control sometimes.

So we'll either have to go sailing or we'll have to speak on stage together some time, but this has been a lot of fun and I'm actually going to really—

KM: On a boat.

RF: On a boat, we'll get a boat, sale the islands. But I'm going to do my best at looking a grief in a different way, and dig more into your content.

I'm inspired to have that help me out, because we all deal with that, but you really put a positive spin on it to help empower people.

KM: Great, well anything I can do to help, I know that my mission and now that I have this clarity is just to help spread a little more healing in this world, because we all need it.

I really appreciate your time and thank you so much for having me.

RF: Awesome and my final question, if people were going to find you online, where would you like them to go first?

KM: Yes, they can go to my website karenmillsap.com, remember Millsap two L's, you can contact me there, you can get a lot of resources if you are a griever.

I have a ton of free resources, I never want a griever to feel like they can't afford healing, and then if you're looking for any more tips on speaking, please reach out to me I am happy to help.

RF: Maybe you should call them griefsources instead of resources.

KM: Hashtag griefsources, I love that! Thanks Ryan.

RF: You can take that one to the bank.

Well Karen, this has been a lot of fun, stay tuned for more podcasts, go back and find the old ones and stay tuned for the future ones, it's so fun to speak with world class speakers from around the world.

This is DJ Ginger MC signing out.

Bye Karen.

KM: Bye!

A bit about World of Speakers

World of Speakers is a weekly podcast that helps people find their own voice, and teaches them how to use their voice to develop a speaking business.

We cover topics like: what works versus what doesn't, ideas on how to give memorable presentations, speaking tips, and ideas on how to build a speaking business.

Connect with Karen Millsap:

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